Release AGS - Adventure Game Studio on Pandora?

[darkborn]

Adventure Game Studio (AGS)
Official link: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/
Linux port: http://drevil.warpcore.org/ags/
legal information: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/aclegal.htm

AGS is free (but not open source?) game creation system.
AGS game engine is needed for playing games, and editor for (possible) authoring.
It is intended for classic/retro "adventure" games, but it is not limited to.
In fact, there is possibility to make many different kind of games/apps.
However, for some time source of game engine (and editor) is not updated for Linux, as you can see at AGS download page :

Download for Linux
A Linux port of the AGS 2.72 game engine is available, which allows you to play AGS 2.x games on Linux. This does not include a Linux version of the AGS Editor.
Currently the Linux port is discontinued awaiting a Linux C++ developer who has the time and skills to take on the job of maintaining it.
(...)
NOTE: You can't upgrade old games that were made with versions older than AGS 2.72. If you have a game built with 2.71 or earlier, please download AGS 2.72 from the link further down this page and use that to upgrade your game first.

...and last (Windows) version is 3.12

I think that some noble wizard(s) should adapt AGS to Pandora.
It means to update & adapt game engine, but also to convert AGS Editor (which is not required for playing games).
Why should anybody do this?
Because:
1.) there are plenty of games written for/from, and most of them are free, many of them with source included.
Look for yourself at MobyGames: 140 games mentioned from 1994-2009! Some of them became real classics, e.g. "5 Days a Stranger", and some are real jewels.
Look at Apprentice for example (Herculean Effort Prod. homepage). Freeware, made for Linux too.

(pic from Apprentice) (640x400 screenshot)
2.) it could be a nice tool to develop apps/games for Pandora! I mean, it will give opportunity to non-programmers or hobby/weekend programmers to contribute at lovely platform ,
and it means spreading of developers/software base.

What do you guys think about it?

 

[SiegfriedCroes]

Aaaaahhh, Adventure Game Studio, forgot about it. I have tried it some years ago and is was quite cool. Point and Click adventures has always been a cool genre for me (I loved games like Discworld and Broken Sword). I don't know if it's possible to port to the Pandora, maybe if one of the AGS developers is interested there would be a chance, it would be awesome cause as you said, there are a bunch of good and free games made with it!

 

[lulzfish]

I'm a little confused. If it's not open-source, who's going to develop the Pandora port?

 

[darkborn]

Licence for AGS is problematic. However, I think that it should be managed, but project should be negotiated with author (Chris Jones), and probably with author of Linux port (Shawn Walker, aka Mindshadow; e-mail (for AGS related): drevil_at_warpcore.org).
Obviously, he got enough confidence from author so he should be involved in porting (if it is possible).

 

[darkborn]

There are few things I find out...
Right now, there is over 1000 games made by AGS! Quite impressive. Counter at "full list of games" stopped at 1012nd game, added 2 days ago. Off course, many of them are bad, unfinished, and not portable. Impressive, anyway.

And now very interesting information at official AGS forum:
Topic: GNU/Linux port discontinued until further notice (03 Dec 2008.)
This sounds bad, but it shouldn't be:
AGS community right now (as it seems) is searching for someone(s) to take project.
Maintainer of GNU/Linux port, "EvilTypeGuy" (Shawn Walker?) said this:
"I would be happy to pass on what material I still have and knowledge about various restrictions, etc. to anyone that CJ (Chris Jones) feels is qualified to continue to the port.
If you feel you are qualified please send CJ a message and when he notifies me, I will be happy to pass the necessary information on."
There is also interesting discussion following at same topic.
IMHO, to somebody capable to finish Linux port of last AGS game engine, it should not be such a problem to make Pandora specific version? And licence is not so big problem: most people will need binary, not source of engine.
I think that the biggest problem is to get "blessing" from mr. Jones. Because of confidence metter, I think that Mr. Jones should be contacted from somebody at Core Pandora team. They should suggest people which they believe that are qualified and trustworthy.
Here are some difficulties etc (from AGS FAQ, by Chris Jones):

Q. Is AGS available for Linux?
A. There is an official Linux (Intel x86) port of the game engine, which can run AGS games created with v2.5 and later. You can find it on the Download page. There is currently no Linux version of the game editor - one may be created if there is enough demand for it.

Q. What about a Mac port?
A. There is a Mac port in development; you can find a beta version of it in the Technical Forum.

Q. Will you do a [Palm/BeOS/etc] port?
A. Due to me having only a limited experience with these operating systems, I will not port it to any further OS at this time. Also, due to AGS's resource requirements, it is not really practical to port it to any hand-held systems.

Q. Then can I have the source code, to port it myself?
A. Sorry, AGS is not open-source. There are many reasons for this which I will not go into here. The main two are:
(1) I made another application open-source in the past, and someone took it, changed the copyright and tried to release it as their own
(2) The AGS file formats are proprietary to make it harder for people to "hack" other people's games. If the source code was available, it would be easy for someone to write some sort of de-compiler for use with other peoples games.

Q. But the GPL will protect you... go on, can I have the source?
A. No it won't. In theory it does, but what happens when someone goes and breaches it? I don't have the time or energy to waste chasing up lamers who have blatantly ignored the license agreement. Sorry.

Btw, AGS heavily depends on Allegro library (GPL): somebody with more technical knowledge should see how it reflects to possible porting of engine.

This could be of interest too: Some dudes already wanted to port AGS to Palm, however they did not do much. Here is link.

 

[Alpha2]

Obviously the only ideal situation would be for someone to create a similar style of engine/environment for the Pandora from scratch. Sadly there's no one who'll spend the time do make this exact thing. There was a pretty decent Visual Novel Engine for the GP2x that was slowly building up to become a good adventure game facilitator with point and click gameplay but it fizzled out as the developer stopped working on improvements.

I think there was also an RPG engine that was in the works, it might have been Python based, but since I had no skill with python(or which ever programing language it used) I gave up trying to learn it myself and stopped following it's development, but I havent heard much about it lately so that suggests to me that it died as well.

Of course neither approach the level of AGS but that just shows that if simpler engines dont seem to have the legs to go the distance I dont see another one for the Pandora doing it either with out a seriously dedicated developer polishing it up regularly.

 

[Esn]

Obviously the only ideal situation would be for someone to create a similar style of engine/environment for the Pandora from scratch.

No, judging from the information provided above, the best conceivable thing would be for the Linux version of the AGS game engine to be ported to Pandora, so that those 2000 games can be played.

This would be a truly worthy undertaking!!

I really hope that someone on the OP team considers sending this guy an email!

 

[SiegfriedCroes]

I don't see a reason why you couldn't send an e-mail yourself, giving them a link to the Pandora main page, some info and an email address of one of the OP team members if they are interested.

 

[Alpha2]

Creating a port would be great but how do you convince them that it's a good idea to do or at the very least grant permission? Surely it's not just a simple undertaking.

 

[WizardStan]

I actually sent such a request back around October, offering to take care of it, but I was ignored (or spam filtered, but I'm not dedicated enough to followup again and again)
The only real problem I perceive is that a disturbing number of games (most of the better ones, especially) rely on x86 (or more specifically, Windows) plugins to handle different effects. I've never gotten video playback to work properly in the Linux cut of AGS, for example.

 

[darkborn]

I actually sent such a request back around October, offering to take care of it, but I was ignored (or spam filtered, but I'm not dedicated enough to followup again and again)

Well, I think that it should be anounced at main AGS forum. AGS could benefit from Pandora, and vice versa. I'm sure that guys around AGS will support our wishes. IMO someone should register at http://www.bigbluecup.com/yabb/ (AGS forum) and then open topic with subject like "Porting Linux AGS to Pandora" or so. There could be a open question e.g. how to convince mighty Chris in our noble intentions?

The only real problem I perceive is that a disturbing number of games (most of the better ones, especially) rely on x86 (or more specifically, Windows) plugins to handle different effects. I've never gotten video playback to work properly in the Linux cut of AGS, for example.

This IS a problem. However, even if we could run "only" a fifty decent games (or so), AGS still could stand as a some kind of Standard (@Pandora) for developing this types of games. Moreover, it could be expanded to Pandora-only features (e.g. touchscreen, special gaming controls, wi-fi/bluetooth multiplayer games etc)

 

[Alpha2]

Perhaps if the request was more geared towards getting it to work on the Beagle Board first and then making a shorter hop to the Pandora. See the problem is you're asking people to spend their time working on something that isnt out yet and even when it gets out only stands to have a small user base where as Beagle Boards are a bit more of a known quantity for hobbyists programmers that might have a wider base of possible users rather than "just a bunch of guys looking for free games" instead of contributing to the AGS community.

I'm sure there are plenty of us who WOULD contribute but for such a new platform that will be the impression.

 

[darkborn]

I agree. However, we should concentrate at similarities, not differences. Right now, the 1st problem is that there is no maintainer for ANY Linux version of AGS. The 2nd problem is that Linux port of AGS engine stalled at v 2.72. If I got it right, Dr.Evil (aka EvilTypeGuy) made some progress toward 3.12 (actual) version. However, he didn't make it complete so that could be published:

I would be happy to pass on what material I still have and knowledge about various restrictions, etc.

Hmmm... it sounds promising.
There is no difference what kind of primary goal is: Beagle Board, Pandora, Wizz, whatever.
Who ever take it, as a first has to clean the code for generic Linux. After that (if succeed), Chris will probably allow him to make port for "specific flavour" of Linux based platform. Until that Pandora Case should be wide opened to the world... so things should develop naturally by its own.
Conclusion is: lets go step by step. If anybody takes Linux port task, community will profit anyway. There is no way to stop porting to other, similar (e.g. ARM based) platform if community wants it. I don't mean by force, or stealing the code: I'm sure that Mr. Jones is very reasonable man (is it Pandora next to his shoulder?). And about the license:
Binaries are enough for many people, and Chris could have source code locked at his basement, visible only to the privileged members of his council. I don't care. As long as we got hundreds of games, and development platform.

 

[darkborn]

OMG I just found this: AGS Religion... look at the Holy Scripture ROFL

"Thought of as a god by certain members" :lol:

 

[Sugar_Kane]

I think a port of AGS is an excellent idea. The website states that:

"A Linux port of the AGS 2.72 game engine is available, which allows you to play AGS 2.x games on Linux. This does not include a Linux version of the AGS Editor.
Currently the Linux port is discontinued awaiting a Linux C++ developer who has the time and skills to take on the job of maintaining it."

I hope there is someone out there with the skills willing to take this on...

 

[WizardStan]

I made a second request to CJ a short while ago, offering to help with a linux port, simultaneously wrapping a Pandora port in there. He said someone had just accepted the task of bringing the Linux port up to date, but would keep me in mind. He made no mention of the Pandora port, even when I responded back to remind him about it.
Time will tell, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[Alpha2]

well at least there's some action being taken on the linux front. the jump form a normal computer to the pandora is better than a jump from nothing at all.

 

[darkborn]

Thank you WizardStan!
At least, we know that something is going on... However, I think that our request should be announced at official AGS forum.
Maybe that start rumors about it...
I have idea: I could register there, and then open topic like: "What do you think about AGS@Pandora?".
Any suggestion? I'll wait for few days, then try.

 

[darkborn]

GNU/Linux Port continued! - AGS 2.72 Beta 1 (with sound!)
http://www.bigbluecup.com/yabb/index.php?topic=37968.0
And there is a brand new site: http://www.t-vandepoele.be/AGS/
(follows copy & paste
AGS 2.72 Beta 1 with Ubuntu installer (Sound working in Ubuntu 9.04!!!) here
NOTE! The installer only works with the 32-bit version of Ubuntu!!! (as the port is build for the x586 architecture)
Next up, video support.

Once that's been achieved it's off to AGS 3.1.2 SP1...
------------------------------------------------------
Actually, it should work on other distributions if you can get the correct library versions.
In Ubuntu (and other debian-based distros) you can run the installer script and see if you can get all libraries.
For other distributions, check if the libraries are available in the package repositories.
I will not support other distributions, BUT if you want to set up the dependencies manually (compiling & installing the libraries), I could probably write a guide on how to do so. (do we want that? )

Dependencies AGS Linux Runtime 2.72
To run the engine, you need:
* libaldmb1 (DUMB - Dynamic Universal Music Bibliotheque)
* liballegro4.2 (ALLEGRO 4.2.2, *patched*)

To use the ags-setup utility, you need:
* libgtk1.2 (GIMP Toolkit set of widgets for X)
* libxml1 (GNOME XML library)

 

[WizardStan]

On a sidenote, I'll consider compiling the AGS Runtime Engine for different architectures only AFTER all linux porting stuff has been made up-to-date on the 32-bit platform. (So those of you who want a 64-bit version, ARM mobile device version, ...

ARM mobile device? You think he's talking about us?