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I've considered to buy one at one point, but after a short research I decided against it. The biggest disadvatage is its low resolution screen and missing Wifi. My old x50v PocketPC is much more capable than the Gp2x for non-gaming uses for example.
With toy I mean gaming device, it wasn't meant in a condescending way.
 
Karel Jansens said:
I'm excited about the Pandora because I wanted a real computer in my pocket again. The last one I had was the Psion Series 5mx; every handheld since then has been at best a subset of a complete computer, lacking either hardware elements, connectivity options or openness of the infrastructure.

Pandora is a full computer and can be used as such, that's what made me open my wallet.
Amen to that. I have almost every Psion that has been produced and have worked on the OpenPsion (linux on psion) project for years. For so long I've wanted an modern ARM based psion replacement device. It is unfortunate that the pandora doesn't have a really good keyboard and that the software could never be as polished as the psion interface, I also miss features like the integrated zoom, cut/copy/paste, menu etc keys on the touch screen, but it is still much, much closer to a psion than any other device has been. And the software can be changed :)
 
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EdCa22 said:
Karel Jansens said:
I'm excited about the Pandora because I wanted a real computer in my pocket again. The last one I had was the Psion Series 5mx; every handheld since then has been at best a subset of a complete computer, lacking either hardware elements, connectivity options or openness of the infrastructure.

Pandora is a full computer and can be used as such, that's what made me open my wallet.
Amen to that. I have almost every Psion that has been produced and have worked on the OpenPsion (linux on psion) project for years. For so long I've wanted an modern ARM based psion replacement device. It is unfortunate that the pandora doesn't have a really good keyboard and that the software could never be as polished as the psion interface, I also miss features like the integrated zoom, cut/copy/paste, menu etc keys on the touch screen, but it is still much, much closer to a psion than any other device has been. And the software can be changed :)


Idem to both of you. I loved using my Psion 5mx Pro, specially de keyboard... but I hated the limited connectiveness options. Pandora kinda remembers me it, with the advantage of being more open and sociable :)
 
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Hi Chip - appreciate the response.

Just to clarify I'm just trying to contribute a little, I have no skills in coding or art or game making at all but I really believe in the Pandora and when the subject of ads came up I thought I'd throw in 2 cents as its an area I work in - hope you don't mind.

I certainly agree with you to some extent. Print advertising - especially in games mags is an expensiive proposition, especially when you consider that a single ad placement is largely useless (the 3 R's of advertising Repitition, Remind, Repeat mean that you have to sustain an ad campaign over a period of time for it to be effective and push people to action.) I used to work in the games industry and print ads would come in at £5k - £12k depending on the individual publication, obviously you get a discount for a series but its a big pinch.

To your point about advertising being worthwhile - I guess I maybe got a little too hung up on print ads. In some places I think it could have a demonstrable efftect - effective advertsing means you target where you think the effect will be the most - ads in Retro Gamer magazine in the UK (a widely available and well read pub in the UK) would likely have a good impact because of the like-minded audience (but should always be backed up be strong/positive reviews and coverage in the editorial, a mix of PR and advertising if you will.)

It would be interesting to know what Craig thought the impact those GP2X ads in Games magazine had - unfortunately the call to action on that ad was not linked to that particular magazine (i.e. there was no dedicated page link directing readers to a particular page so you can measure hits, leads and sales caused by that ad.) so it may be difficult to tell and if you ask consumers often they can't remember where they saw the product so you really have to capture them at the point of entry.

Your point: "Do you think that there are tens of thousands of other people who would be similarly excited by that possibility? Excited enough to spend $340 for it? Maybe there are, but how would you go about finding them?"

Well Amiga gaming is what drew me into the GP2X (even though I never got it working but there we are :) ) but to another chap it might be the fact its a tiny UMPC, to another Homebrew, to another a small internet ready wireless device - this is what I mean by the "proposition". There would be little point advertising in RetroGamer saying "Pandora - Open source UMPC" people would say "Well so what?" but if you say "Quake 3, Neo Geo, PSX - all in the palm of your hand" thats a different message for the same product. The UMPC message might work well for a Linux pub for instance. I guess this one's easier for me as the process of marketing IS pretty much the idenification of those people who your product might appeal to and presenting them with a message that draws them to buy.

However I digress (again :) with the Pandora, a Guerilla Marketing campaign, using strong word of mouth, sneaky little Google ad word campaigns etc would seem the most appropriate. If Pandora can garner good, positive reviews when launched you'll be in a good place for a while. I'm just not sure that will be enough to sustain momentum when the device is say 6 months old there is X new similar device out from X manufacturer that everyone is hyped about.

Targetted marketing does not have to be expensive, especially if you are a "small fella" like OpenPandora. Forget CES, E3 and all that jazz - we know it costs a bomb and is built around the budgets of major companies like EA, Sony and Microsoft. You can do an awful lot with say £5k (I know there are no margins around right now but just saying), some Google ads, a press day/launch and some banner ads on targetted retro gamers/UMPC web sites (which you can measure and pull if they don't work) together with all the good PR stuff. Yes there is a lot of competition out there but that's almost why a clear message and proposition are important as someone who is thinking "Hmmm I want to get me a UMPC or new gaming device right now", Pandora should be in there fighting for a piece of that "mind share". Its not a case of convincing them to buy something they don't want but presenting your case clearly so they understand what the product is all about and can make an informed decision as to whether the Pandora will be included in their mental shortlist based on their internal buying criteria, if you see what I mean.

Interestingly I'm working on a lot of "Influencer Marketing" right now whereby you take a product or solution, identify the influencers in a particular market (those "voices" in a particular area that are seen as trusted opinions by a community) and work with them to, if not to directly endorse your product, then at least endorse the idea. You might say well we're already doing that with Engadget blah blah but the interesting thing is that your influencers in a given market are rarely the people you think they are (for me that is Analysts like Gartner and IT pubs). Influencer marketing is cheap in that there is little cost but involves a lot of ground work to identify and work with those people/orgs/publcations or whatever they might be.

However, another great rambling reply sorry :). The fact is, as you allude to, the most important factors is the potential customer base (only the devs can really forecast this based on their own experience, the performance of similar products and "gut feel") and the supply chain; there is no point creating demand for thousands of units if the devs can't get them out the door - that just annoys people (as shown here with the preorder situation - no blame btw but its a fact that there is some annoyance out there). I do think it has the ability to transcend its current niche despite the relatively high cost, if they sort the supply chain out and engage in some targetted marketing...hell I'd even help out as more people interested means more devs which means more great games and apps for me and the rest of the community :) and don't get me wrong, I want the best developed, most solid, bugfree product they can make :)

I'd also like to say great job - whoever it was who suggested you to be the PR guy had his head screwed on - clear, unbiased, accurate (as far as possible) info is much appreciated :)

Anyway - its the 15th so hopefully we'll get some updates in the next couple of days - happy Pandora!
 
That's a long post :)

Thanks for sharing your opinion, enjoyed reading it. Reading advice from someone working in marketing is always a good thing I guess.

I think you're right about that there is no point to create demand when you can't even order the device.
The early adopter are ready to put up with some delay but after the 2 first batch you should really be able to just order one online and get it shipped straight ahead.
(obviously that's the goal, if the demand for them is really too high they might not be able to keep producing them at the same rate. But being able to have a steady flow of unit coming out would definitely be essential and good estimated delay of availability)

I think one other reason for not pushing the device from too early on is that the software won't be polished enough at first. Once we get a good solid version of the official OS with some good working apps (including emulators of course) and a nice interface you will be able to communicate more efficiently about the product and what you can actually do with it. Hopefully this won't take too time.
 
EdCa22 said:
Karel Jansens said:
I'm excited about the Pandora because I wanted a real computer in my pocket again. The last one I had was the Psion Series 5mx; every handheld since then has been at best a subset of a complete computer, lacking either hardware elements, connectivity options or openness of the infrastructure.

Pandora is a full computer and can be used as such, that's what made me open my wallet.
Amen to that. I have almost every Psion that has been produced and have worked on the OpenPsion (linux on psion) project for years. For so long I've wanted an modern ARM based psion replacement device. It is unfortunate that the pandora doesn't have a really good keyboard and that the software could never be as polished as the psion interface, I also miss features like the integrated zoom, cut/copy/paste, menu etc keys on the touch screen, but it is still much, much closer to a psion than any other device has been. And the software can be changed :)

The keyboard, I can live with. I managed rather good WPMs on my 3a, using the Psion "six finger" typing style, and I never really felt comfortable with the 5's keyboard (it makes me want to touch-type on it, but somehow my fingers seem to lose their confidence and order my eyes to peek anyway). The Netbook's keyboard OTOH is a true marvel to type on, but that one's not exactly pocketable.

What I'm going to miss most as well, is the EPOC UI itself, and the very clever and powerful applications that came with it. I so wish we could have Word, Sheet, Data and Agenda on the Pandora...
 
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That's a great response Pandorasloveflaps. "Mindshare" is the key; there are many close to zero cost ways of inspiring interest in potential buyers (you had mentioned a bunch), but I think that we can do more. A couple batches from now, when the project is past its early adopter stage – if the Pandora had a strong strong brand identity, its mindshare could be significantly larger.
 
djmaddis said:
i think the register is a good place for the pandora to be reviewed upon its release.
Ahhh.. you remind me on something...

We need a program which runs on the P and does bluetooth-Advertising. So all people around us with a bluetooth device get to know about the Pandora :)

Ok, the topic.. . There will be around 4k Pandas sold. I know of two people who will definatley order from a latr batch if the P (which I am bying) fullfills their demands. And another 5-7 who are considering bying it when they see it. Let's assume 7 guys around me want to buy it and everybody of the 1st 4k has the same number of friends which woul dlike to buy it when they see it, then we will have over 25k uinits sold. :)

The downside: In 6 month this calculation doesn't hold anymore, because then there will be much more handheld devices... It _MAY_ be a good idea to think about a Pandora+ for teh next Xmas.
 
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joseluisjazz said:
Idem to both of you. I loved using my Psion 5mx Pro, specially de keyboard... but I hated the limited connectiveness options. Pandora kinda remembers me it, with the advantage of being more open and sociable :)
That is true, and was their biggest disadvantage. To give them credit though, they were made at a time when it really wasnt easy to have lots of connectivity - e.g. there was no wifi or bluetooth in wide use, and usb was in its infancy. I always wished they could add a second memory card slot though so that the cf could be used for peripherals like ethernet or wireless.
 
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traylorpark said:
That's a great response Pandorasloveflaps. "Mindshare" is the key; I think like you, that there are many close to zero cost ways of at least planting a seed of interest in potential buyers (you had mentioned a bunch), but I think that we can do more. A couple batches from now, when the project is past its early adopter stage – if the Pandora had a strong and professional brand identity, its mindshare could be significantly larger.



:) No worries I guess my splurge came from finally being able to contribute something that might be worthwhile :lol:

Agree completely with the low cost thread, there are many talented people here in terms of graphics/coding, web design and sheer creativity, the bluetooth idea is also an interesting one and something I might use myself (thanks :))...its about being clever with a really tightly focused message, not spending billions like the big boys. Hey you can spend millions on marketing and STILL get it wrong (Loved my Dreamcast but boy did they roll that machine out badly...it still grates now how its life ended prematurely).

Anyway right now I guess a lot of this is moot, the guys who preordered this need it in their hands, then the devs can worry about building momentum to take on the world...or at least a well deserved slice of it.

Oh and the point about the development state of software on launch is VERY true, most of us know what we're in for with this and are happy to put up with a few "quirks" at launch or maybe even beyond as its not been consumer tested. Little 16 year old Johnny rich kid (no offense if anyone is 16, rich and called Johnny :blink: ) orders his new toy and finds that playing psx isn't as simple as just turning it on (if you'll forgive the slight exaggeration) - believe me a pissed off customer does your brand and product far more damage than a happy one does it good. I think the stats are something like you will tell 12 people on average if you have a bad product/brand experience (not including net posts) and only 5 of a good. So best to avoid the "WTFFF! PANDORAZZ IS SHITE AND NO WORK!" "reviews" this might garner alongside your carefully nutured product review on Engadget while the software is still being polished :rolleyes:
 
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EdCa22 said:
joseluisjazz said:
Idem to both of you. I loved using my Psion 5mx Pro, specially de keyboard... but I hated the limited connectiveness options. Pandora kinda remembers me it, with the advantage of being more open and sociable :)
That is true, and was their biggest disadvantage. To give them credit though, they were made at a time when it really wasnt easy to have lots of connectivity - e.g. there was no wifi or bluetooth in wide use, and usb was in its infancy. I always wished they could add a second memory card slot though so that the cf could be used for peripherals like ethernet or wireless.

There used to be ethernet-to-serial connectors (and probably wifi-to-serial too), it's just that EPOC drivers never surfaced for them. In any case, my Netbook has wifi -- and a crummy browser, but that's another story.
 
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Chip said:
Reviews popping up on Engadget / Gizmodo / Ars are going to do more to sell the Pandora than any amount of print or web advertising ever could.
That's why it's important to get the machine perfect before launch, and why I refrain from any whines re: the delays. The abovementioned, together with Reg/Inq/Crunch cover pretty much all english-speaking techies, and a faulty launch would be a widely reported black mark on Pandora's reputation.

Positive reporting/reviews on the major sites, on the other hand, guarantee plenty of interest to keep the team busy filling orders for the near future. In our specific slice of the world, the cost/benefit ratio of print ads wouldn't justify moving there for quite a while.
 
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