Pandora A Request For A "hacker" Version - For Pandora Peripherals..

[jdh2550]

Craig mentioned a "hacker version" - which as I understand it would be an early release of the final product but without a battery.

If that's the case I'd like to request one (and started this thread to explore my chances of getting one).

I'd like one because I'm in the process of developing a USB chorded keyboard for the Pandora (and N8x0) with an integrated accelerometer as a mouse or joystick. So far I have the USB and keyboard part up and running on the breadboard.

Although I can test with any USB host I'd like to get a feel for the physical design of the panda and figure out the best mounting options. My design is based off of GKOS (see GKOS.net) and consists of six keys which will be on the bottom side of the unit and placed to fall underneath three fingers of each hand as you hold the device.

On the one hand I don't need access to a pandora for any of this. But on the other hand it would help with figuring out final layout and aesthetics - and it might be neat to offer a "pandora peripherals" line.

I'd only want one that came in a case.

Of course, if there's no hacker versions released then all this is moot.

 

[sinoth]

I hope that if a version without the battery is offered they start with the first pre-order, give them the option, then continue down the list. I don't know if I like the 'hacker' units being treated like dev units since people will probably exploit the offer to cut in line.

That being said, I do like your idea jdh2550. Sounds like a neat addon, especially if you can make it slim enough. Wouldn't want to try and get my hands on a Pandora + 1 inch slab on the bottom.

 

[efegea]

People don't get that these 'hacker' pandoras are like the dev kits, only for kernel and core aplications developers. *sigh* :rolleyes:

 

[sinoth]

People don't get that these 'hacker' pandoras are like the dev kits, only for kernel and core aplications developers. *sigh* :rolleyes:

Maybe we don't 'get' that because it wasn't implied in anything craigix said?

QUOTE
[...] ship some units reasonably soon to those of you who are more the hacker type [...]

Not sure how you read that to mean they are only going to core developers. I take that as meaning "those of you who don't mind being tied to a power cord and don't mind a buggy, incomplete OS". Which, for this crowd, is probably nearly everyone.

 

[viridior]

I do like the idea and I believe there is an additional demand for OpenPandora development not necessarily at the "kernel" or device level.

The gentoo-arm-pandora project is working on developing a Gentoo port (based on embedded devices) that works at utilizing existing software and implementing patches/workarounds to improve the users experience on the Pandora. I use this example not only to get more publicity for the project, but also to emphasize the value that could be added by mid-level "hackers" to do a lot of grunt work by compiling, testing, and finding/modifying existing solutions to fix immediate issues. Likely, this group of hackers will be what will provide immediate solutions to the average platform user. Working on projects like getting kde/gnome, media players, and other common software to work correctly on a target system will free up time for kernel/system level developers and provide more resources to the general community.

My 2 cents, curious if others think the same or this is just a wish on my part.

Very Respectfully,
Viridior

 

[jdh2550]

People don't get that these 'hacker' pandoras are like the dev kits, only for kernel and core aplications developers. *sigh* :rolleyes:

Maybe we don't 'get' that because it wasn't implied in anything craigix said?

QUOTE
[...] ship some units reasonably soon to those of you who are more the hacker type [...]

Not sure how you read that to mean they are only going to core developers. I take that as meaning "those of you who don't mind being tied to a power cord and don't mind a buggy, incomplete OS". Which, for this crowd, is probably nearly everyone.

Thanks sinoth - my thoughts entirely. I thought my request was reasonable, it's a shame other folks don't 'get' that there are folks out there who want to pursue other things and take Craig at his word. *sigh* :rolleyes:

Oh and it won't be an inch thick - maybe just 0.9 inches

The main driver of thickness at present is the choice of buttons. I'm about to try some itty-bitty surface mount ones - but I don't know how well they'll work for "typing". If they do work the whole thing would probably be around 0.25" - maybe even less. If anyone has a good idea for a source of ultra low profile "keyboard-like" buttons let me know!

I'm also thinking of incorporating a hub - that will get around the "high speed only" issue.

First version will be sold as a kit - with the option of people paying me to assemble the kit for them. If there's enough demand I'd consider investigating a small production run.

And if I have to wait until my place in line and get a "regular" pandora then so be it. But if you don't ask you don't get.

 

[Eniko]

People don't get that these 'hacker' pandoras are like the dev kits, only for kernel and core aplications developers. *sigh* :rolleyes:

Maybe we don't 'get' that because it wasn't implied in anything craigix said?

QUOTE
[...] ship some units reasonably soon to those of you who are more the hacker type [...]

Not sure how you read that to mean they are only going to core developers. I take that as meaning "those of you who don't mind being tied to a power cord and don't mind a buggy, incomplete OS". Which, for this crowd, is probably nearly everyone.

This poll serves no purpose. If any early units get sent out sans-battery, they will go to software developers chosen by Craig.

Not for the general public, but for devs. Q.E.D.

 

[sinoth]

If any early units get sent out sans-battery, they will go to software developers chosen by Craig.

Not for the general public, but for devs. Q.E.D.
My bad, thanks for the clarification. Lately, finding the important stuff around here feels like digging through a dumpster :/

 

[___]

If any early units get sent out sans-battery, they will go to software developers chosen by Craig.

Not for the general public, but for devs. Q.E.D.
My bad, thanks for the clarification. Lately, finding the important stuff around here feels like digging through a dumpster :/

Yeah, that's because people don't read the relevant posts and instead spam the boards with misinformation and misleading threads... yes, I am a bitter man.

 

[Spirit]

Yeah, that's because people don't read the relevant posts and instead spam the boards with misinformation and misleading threads... yes, I am a bitter man.

It really is not easy following the project through forum posts...

 

[___]

I know. Where did I say it was? I feel that mainly that is because people spread misinformation and unnecessary posts and spam the boards with bullcrap instead of shutting the hell up and listening to/reading what is relevant.

 

[jdh2550]

If any early units get sent out sans-battery, they will go to software developers chosen by Craig.

Not for the general public, but for devs. Q.E.D.
Right - but this is a request from a "developer" (me) for a hacker unit (an early production run unit in a case) for a "development" project (a hardware peripheral). Sure, it's not software development as Chip states - but (1) Chip's statement contradicts Craig's - and there's likely an "informal hierarchy" that exists in terms of who's closest to the source information & (2) I dare say there are a lot fewer folks contemplating external hardware development (i.e. peripherals) so it's natural to type "software developers" than just "developers" or "external hardware and software developers".

So, it still seems like a reasonable request - and I'm not sure why folks decided to turn this into yet another "gosh he just doesn't read" thread. Perhaps those folks would like to read my original request?

Or, do you disagree that hardware development is a reasonable past time and can add to the desirability of the pandora? Over on the general thread (hint, this is the development thread not the general thread) when I asked about accelerometers there was a reasonable amount of interest - thus that would imply that this does add value to the pandora community.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

I feel that mainly that is because people spread misinformation and unnecessary posts and spam the boards with bullcrap instead of shutting the hell up and listening to/reading what is relevant.

Yeah, and add that to all the folks that like to post completely unrelated complaints (like yours) to well intentioned threads that are in a development thread about a development project and the SNR goes through the floor. Thanks - I REALLY appreciate your thoughtful input. Can you please go be bitter on your own thread, not mine? Hint it really is simple - if you don't like it don't post - if you post you simply become part of the problem that you insist you hate - kind of shooting yourself in your foot don't you think?)

----

Now back on topic - this thread is about the chances of getting a "hacker" unit to assist with a "peripheral development" project.

 

[renegadechic]

hmmm i think you are taking this far too personally. it is probably a worry for the team that the pandora will be released, sent out and we will then be sat around for months with hardly anything to do on it. i get the impression they want us to be wowed from the word go and that there are things we can do and use straight away before it is forgotten or to avoid people complaining.

if the hacker boards go out to software people there is a good chance that a large number of people will use and download emulators and programs etc. i think your project sounds interesting but also quite niche. i think there will be fewer people after a chorded keyboard compared to say an N64 emulator if people wanted to work on it, or maemo. also, your keyboard will likely have less interest if there arent enough programs to use it with.

its a valid project but i think they are simply focusing on what is important for the mass market for when its finally released. is that so unreasonable? their product is simply the pandora and they are having enough issues with that than thinking about even more hardware!

 

[jdh2550]

it is probably a worry for the team that the pandora will be released, sent out and we will then be sat around for months with hardly anything to do on it. i get the impression they want us to be wowed from the word go and that there are things we can do and use straight away before it is forgotten or to avoid people complaining.

I agree that software development is more important at this stage. However, there are at least 20 or so software devs on board at this point - what's one (amateur) hardware developer to add to the mix? I won't be asking for support and this won't impact the delivery of the product. It likely won't have a major impact on the quantity of software available on release day either (personally, as long as I have MAME on release day I'll be more than happy mashing buttons for a good long while).

All I take "personally" is when folks turn a thread exploring a hardware project into yet another flame fest based around their unrelated pet peeves and knee-jerk reactions which, ironically, are just the sort of problem that they complain about in the first place. It's a quandary - if I ignore these folks then the thread becomes a simple bitch session about "idiots who don't read" and is unlikely to get any on-topic posts at all. If I respond to them then I too add to the problem and also reduce the focus of the thread. Ah, the vagaries of communication in the Internet Age! ;-)

But - most of all - thanks for taking the time of posting an on-topic reply.

I guess I'll be waiting for my regular pandora - unless Craig (or one of the other key folks) stumbles over this and is intrigued by the idea and throws me a crumb

One of the reasons for posting this way rather than sending him email is to not presume to interrupt him. Another, secondary reason, is to continue to gain input on the project

 

[Eniko]

Right - but this is a request from a "developer" (me) for a hacker unit (an early production run unit in a case) for a "development" project (a hardware peripheral). Sure, it's not software development as Chip states - but (1) Chip's statement contradicts Craig's - and there's likely an "informal hierarchy" that exists in terms of who's closest to the source information & (2) I dare say there are a lot fewer folks contemplating external hardware development (i.e. peripherals) so it's natural to type "software developers" than just "developers" or "external hardware and software developers".

So, it still seems like a reasonable request - and I'm not sure why folks decided to turn this into yet another "gosh he just doesn't read" thread. Perhaps those folks would like to read my original request?

Wasn't replying to you, and have no beef with you wanting one. I was just spreading the information Chip provided, since a lot of people seem to think that the hacker version is some sort of sneak preview that will, basically, let them cut in line because they don't mind receiving an incomplete product early.

Good luck to you, though.