128mb Of Ram...

[Zarneth]

Maybe someone will write a ReadyBoost type application.

Don't believe Microsoft. Readyboost (in windows vista) is a joke. It's far cheaper and efficient to buy more ram for your pc than it is to buy a ready boost compatible usb key.

It's just a cache file for frequently used programs anyway. It doesn't actually store anything from the ram there because if the usb key is removed half your ram AND it's contents is suddenly missing. Frankly a well defragmented hard drive is probably faster anyway. :blink:
QUOTE
It's a game system. Honestly, yes, that's what it is.
No it isn't. I wish people would stop saying that. Perhaps that was the original idea, but it has far more potential than JUST a gaming machine. The keyboard would be barely used if it was just a gaming machine too. I mean if they just wanted a gaming machine what's wrong with the DS or PSP, and the GP2x? :huh:

 

[Yrx]

No it isn't. I wish people would stop saying that. Perhaps that was the original idea, but it has far more potential than JUST a gaming machine. The keyboard would be barely used if it was just a gaming machine too. I mean if they just wanted a gaming machine what's wrong with the DS or PSP, and the GP2x? :huh:

I'm pretty sure it is, actually. You know, with the entire design built with gaming in mind? I'm not saying that it can't be used for other things. It can and it will. But it's a gaming handheld. It's not meant to do everything in the world, if it were, it would be several hundred dollars more expensive and classified as an open-source UMPC.

But that's another argument in itself. I did like how you ignored everything else I said, though. lol

 

[God Ginrai]

But he can't give us everything we want, especially when it exceeds the bounds of physical possibility or fiscal reasonability.

And if Craigix or anyone else involved reads this, I would like to tell them once again how grateful I am for someone who will do so much for the community. I'm sure many more of us feel the same.

Here, Here! *nods head in agreement*

I mean if they just wanted a gaming machine what's wrong with the DS or PSP, and the GP2x? :huh:

Aside from the fact that many GAMING possibilities are opened with the Pandora that aren't with the PSP and DS? Such as N64 games, 32X (not sure if PSP has it, but I'd doubt it), and better DosBox performance. (Quake III maybe? I'm not really clear on if it's really possible or not) There's much more other than that, too.

-God Ginrai

 

[#1 GameMaster]

But he can't give us everything we want, especially when it exceeds the bounds of physical possibility or fiscal reasonability.

And if Craigix or anyone else involved reads this, I would like to tell them once again how grateful I am for someone who will do so much for the community. I'm sure many more of us feel the same.

Here, Here! *nods head in agreement*

I mean if they just wanted a gaming machine what's wrong with the DS or PSP, and the GP2x? :huh:

Aside from the fact that many GAMING possibilities are opened with the Pandora that aren't with the PSP and DS? Such as N64 games, 32X (not sure if PSP has it, but I'd doubt it), and better DosBox performance. (Quake III maybe? I'm not really clear on if it's really possible or not) There's much more other than that, too.

-God Ginrai

The PSP does have it but it is really slow two games that work on it ok is smash bros. and super mario 64 but that's pretty much it. So the Pandora would probably have a hell of a lot better chance of having a full speed N64 emulator to the PSP.

 

[Vorporeal]

But he can't give us everything we want, especially when it exceeds the bounds of physical possibility or fiscal reasonability.

And if Craigix or anyone else involved reads this, I would like to tell them once again how grateful I am for someone who will do so much for the community. I'm sure many more of us feel the same.

Hear, Hear! *nods head in agreement*


Totally agree with both Ginrai and Yrx. We'll work with what we have. We're getting 128mb RAM, so we'll design software that conforms to that limitation. We'll code ports that conform to that limitation. Honestly, it doesn't limit us in the least. Any of these 256mb pieces of software that people want to use can be trimmed down to a 128mb requirement, I'm sure. Anything requiring more than 256mb RAM is not something that should be run on Pandora.

P.S.: Quote edited for accuracy.

EDIT: GameMaster: The sys reqs for Quake 3 are a 300ish MHz Pentium 2/3 processor, an OpenGL compatible graphics card, and 64mb RAM. With a bit of tweaking and porting, Quake3 should run fine. (Remember, iD released the source for the engine.)

 

[Exophase]

The PSP does have it but it is really slow two games that work on it ok is smash bros. and super mario 64 but that's pretty much it. So the Pandora would probably have a hell of a lot better chance of having a full speed N64 emulator to the PSP.

32X, and no it doesn't have it.

How did I miss that Ubuntu Mobile also says it requires an Intel Silverthorne CPU, something Pandora very much doesn't have?

Does anyone else not see the problem with this? Why would something require a CPU that isn't even out, and for that matter is in fact weaker than compatible x86 CPUs already on the UMPC market (and for that matter, using a code name that I doubt average people will be acquainted with by the time the CPU is mainstream)? Sounds pretty weird to me.

What's more, Ubuntu is specifically pushing this for "MIDs", a marketing term Intel made up (as if several available products weren't already both mobile and highly internet capable), that I can bet anything implies coming with an x86 CPU. And has a minimum requirement of 256MB, conveniently cutting out half the non-x86 competition.

I wonder what Ubuntu's incentive is in all of this.

 

[icurafu]

There is also legacy code with support for most McCaslin features. That's the A100 and A110 CPUs that are available now. It's currently tested on the Samsung Q1U. (Why are we talking about mobile ubuntu here?)

 

[Exophase]

There is also legacy code with support for most McCaslin features. That's the A100 and A110 CPUs that are available now. It's currently tested on the Samsung Q1U. (Why are we talking about mobile ubuntu here?)

Because that's a reason jdh2550 gave for wanting more RAM, and probably the very thing that made him go "hey, but this only has 128MB!"

Then I saw ANOTHER thread asking about having this on the Pandora, and another response indicating that Pandora doesn't have the 256MB it'd need.

The whole thing is just suspicious to me, and to me it doesn't lend itself as a good argument for why mobile software should need so much RAM.

 

[atomicthumbs]

The first Google result for the term "omap 3430 adressable ram" is this topic.

 

[icurafu]

ok, that makes sense to me. Sounds a little sus to me as well.

I could do with more than 128MB of ram that I documented in another thread. Wenoth for example can use more than 128MB of ram, however, it is massivelly inefficient when consuming ram. So it should be a quick fix. There are also about a dozen games that use the quake3 engine but have used more textures and gone a little crazy, consuming a lot more than 128MB.

Overall, I'm happy. There will be a few missed oppurtunities, but also some more reason to test our hacking skills, now with memory management.

This is one of the reasons, I dont want to see a full OS like ubuntu mobile. I'm more interested in running games than the MID/UMPC features. I want all 128MB for games and emulators, and nothing left for bloated OS stuff when I try to cram some of these massive 3D games in a 128MB space.

 

[Exophase]

The first Gogole result for the term "omap 3430 adressable ram" is this topic.

Even though I had this suspicion that www.gogole.com would indeed take me to Google I was still pleasantly amused when it actually did.

 

[Zarneth]

I'm pretty sure it is, actually. You know, with the entire design built with gaming in mind? I'm not saying that it can't be used for other things. It can and it will. But it's a gaming handheld. It's not meant to do everything in the world, if it were, it would be several hundred dollars more expensive and classified as an open-source UMPC.

But that's another argument in itself. I did like how you ignored everything else I said, though. lol

While gaming was obviously the primary aim, do really think the Pandora creators only ambition was for a gaming machine?

I'm not saying gaming isn't it's main function. My problem is with people saying or it's ONLY for gaming because the pandora is more flexible and versatile than ANY other handheld device I've seen on the market. It also has almost all the capabilities of a real pc. How many other devices this size can claim to have a powered usb port, a keyboard, a touch screen and decent gaming controls?

When I look at the Pandora I see someone trying to do something better than all these stupid money hungry companies and corporations who only ever make devices for relativity narrow categories of usefulness, usually just so they can make money and keep selling you more and more different devices.

 

[ldesnogu]

The cores since ARM7 at the very least have 32 bits of address going out the chip. Indeed then the SoC designer can decide to get rid of some bits

You may want to rephrase that before people get the wrong end of the stick. ARM don't make chips, they make IP. Its upto the chip designer to decide what to give access to.

I don't see what could be wrongly taken so I will try to rephrase:

- ARM designs CPU cores which all have 32 bits of address on their busses
- a system-on-chip designer (TI for instance) picks up ARM core and puts it in his SoC (OMAP3430)
- the SoC designer is free to use all or part of these 32 bits of address
- the SoC designer does not have the right to change the implementation of ARM core.

Is that better?

 

[Squidge]

Is that better?

Muchly

 

[God Ginrai]

But he can't give us everything we want, especially when it exceeds the bounds of physical possibility or fiscal reasonability.

And if Craigix or anyone else involved reads this, I would like to tell them once again how grateful I am for someone who will do so much for the community. I'm sure many more of us feel the same.

Here, Here! *nods head in agreement*

I mean if they just wanted a gaming machine what's wrong with the DS or PSP, and the GP2x? :huh:

Aside from the fact that many GAMING possibilities are opened with the Pandora that aren't with the PSP and DS? Such as N64 games, 32X (not sure if PSP has it, but I'd doubt it), and better DosBox performance. (Quake III maybe? I'm not really clear on if it's really possible or not) There's much more other than that, too.

-God Ginrai

The PSP does have it but it is really slow two games that work on it ok is smash bros. and super mario 64 but that's pretty much it. So the Pandora would probably have a hell of a lot better chance of having a full speed N64 emulator to the PSP.


The N64 emulator on the PSP can't be considered a gaming possibility, because it's speed is merely that of a proof of concept. (Note this does not mean I am saying that the developer was just trying to make a POC, merely that it is only as fast as one, essentially) It is something that you put on your PSP so you can say to your friends: "Check it out, I got Super Smash Bros. Handheld!" You don't just go playing it, because it's not fast enough for it to be enjoyable. (or in most cases playable)

-God Ginrai

 

[jdh2550]

It's a game system. Honestly, yes, that's what it is. It's a fricking DS with a keyboard. 128 MB of RAM is a stupendous amount of memory for anything other than running a Microsoft OS or a heavy Linux distro. And honestly, I bet you could get Ubuntu running on it fine with some tweaking. If you don't want to tweak, and you don't want to make the money-invested initiative to make your own handheld (or for that matter, even buy one more powerful than Pandora), then I don't want to hear it.

The internals of the hardware have been decided on, and for some reason or another, Craigix decided to go with 128 MB. Maybe it's cost for specialized parts, maybe it's current availability of that setup. The distinct idea that's coming across is that doing what you're asking for would delay the launch even further, and maybe drive the price up. If you want to spend more money for more functionality, then please, go ahead and buy one of the many other UMPC's on the market

Most of the attitude I get from the open-source community is gratefulness towards the people that make it happen, and excitement over new developments. And that's the way it should be. Besides individual opinion, none of us are entitled to anything at all. Especially since none of us have even bought anything yet. For a businessman, Craigix has been incredibly open-eared to the community. But he can't give us everything we want, especially when it exceeds the bounds of physical possibility or fiscal reasonability.

And if Craigix or anyone else involved reads this, I would like to tell them once again how grateful I am for someone who will do so much for the community. I'm sure many more of us feel the same.

Did you read my freakin' first post or did you just decide to vomit your opinion on this page!?

People I never asked for more memory! I certainly never implied that I was entitled to anything. I simply asked why they made a decision. I'm still going to put my money where my mouth is and buy one of the dang things. Read the first frickin' line of my original post.

I thought questions were a good thing. Or did I miss the part of the "orientation" where you all explain to the noobs that you can praise all you want but don't ask simple questions?

I have nothing but respect for Craig, MWeston and ED (and any others closely involved in making this happen). They've achieved an amazing thing - just think how many people and how much money Sony threw at the PSP or Nintendo at the DS.

People I only asked a QUESTION!!!!!

Ok, now I'm off to take my valium (but I'll probably respond to the other replies - it's a disease I have).

 

[ldesnogu]

Laurent: What ARMs can address > 4GB, and how does it work?

Oh I missed that one, sorry.

Look at Cortex-A8 TRM on ARM site: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?t...d/Cihbdgab.html

You can see that you optionnally can have 8 bits on top the 32 bits of address you usually have.
However C-A8 does not implement that

 

[jdh2550]

Exophase and others - in the context of "why not more than 128MB" don't get so hung up on Ubuntu Mobile - I just used that as a recent example of why more than 128MB might have some valid use. I could likely find others - sorry, but I just didn't think I'd need to.

I love the person who said something like "beyond the realms of physical limitations and fiscal reasonability". Geez, I guess he must have been involved in the detailed cost benefit analysis and extensive research? This is poking fun at the folks who seem to claim some clairvoyant understanding of Craig et als vision for the Craiginator. It is NOT poking fun at Craig et al - they had a vision, they did whatever investigation they felt necessary and they're about to deliver a truly amazing device.

For everyone who says it's not a UMPC - perhaps you should tell Craig that? UMPC means Ultra Mobile Personal Computer and the website calls the Pandora an "ultra portable open source computer". Sounds pretty similar to me.

There are others who have put forth sensible, well educated, guesses and hypotheses. Thank you, but I could have come up with most of those myself. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't have posted - it's just an explanation as why I still want to hear from the "horses mouth" so to speak. (Pickle, I re-read MWeston's response but it doesn't speak to cost or the possibility of future larger capacity devices)

I'm still going to ask the question. Craig, MWeston and ED - if you have time to answer this (and you probably don't) why did you chose 128MB RAM?

I've since learned that user upgrade won't be feasible. Who knows if the next version will simply swap out that part for a larger capacity one.

 

[goobers]

I've since learned that user upgrade won't be feasible. Who knows if the next version will simply swap out that part for a larger capacity one.

I'd guess that that would be unlikely as it would cause software to be written that would alienate the people with the first version, but who knows. (for some reason this makes me think of the expansion pak on the N64...)

 

[jdh2550]

I've since learned that user upgrade won't be feasible. Who knows if the next version will simply swap out that part for a larger capacity one.

I'd guess that that would be unlikely as it would cause software to be written that would alienate the people with the first version, but who knows. (for some reason this makes me think of the expansion pak on the N64...)


Yeah - that seemed to be what MWeston implied. I'd like to understand a little bit more why the OS doesn't shield user apps from the need to know the exact amount of memory? Now don't all pile on and call me an idiot. However, most end applications only specify a minimum amount of memory - not a maximum.

On another board I saw Exophase mention that you can't create a virtual machine for an ARM. Can someone point me at a good resource to understand that?

Perhaps this is the missing piece in my education - understanding why different amounts of RAM would be such a bad thing. Thanks.