Windows Vista


WarmFluffyUK posted on Feb 10 2006 at 06:37 PM said:
Cyclops posted on Feb 10 2006 at 06:27 PM said:
spray posted on Feb 10 2006 at 05:45 PM said:
read warmfluffy's post

she is very knowledgable about the tech world, i'm sure she knows far more than you for that matter.

i think you're making a pretty uneducated "window$ $cuks" comment

LOL knowledgable. Vista had lots of features that made it more comparible to an OS like linux, unfortunately most of those features have been removed. Unfortunately its still a long way to go.
You are as a matter of fact a little bit wrong, Vista uses a system called LUa which means Least-privileged User Account. users will be running as non admin or low privileged status while being able to easily run applications requiring more privilege as necessary. It doesn't employ the same technology as Linux, but uses a form of access tokens and it has a basic execution model for running applications under Access Tokens. By default users will no longer be required to run as admin in daily practice. My earlier post was a simplified version of this, but if you want to go technical I am happy to :) .

Edit:
Please don't think I am saying Vista is aiming to replace Linux, as even I am not that stupid. I myself am experimenting with moving my NT based Servers to Ubuntu. I just think that Vista could be something good. If Microsoft get the security right, it will thwart them darned hackers and the scum who make a profit from spy ware. And in the process make my life a LOT easier!


My biggest worry is not the inclusion of a verying priveledge user based system but how many companies will just turn it off. You can guarentee MS will allow companies to do things the old way. My mother complains about having to click 2 more buttons to shut down in KDE compared to GNOME. She'd throw a fit over a Linux style su type system and so would many other people.

Already taking bets for most deactivated feature in Vista :D .
 
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G Morgan posted on Feb 11 2006 at 03:07 AM said:
My biggest worry is not the inclusion of a verying priveledge user based system but how many companies will just turn it off. You can guarentee MS will allow companies to do things the old way. My mother complains about having to click 2 more buttons to shut down in KDE compared to GNOME. She'd throw a fit over a Linux style su type system and so would many other people.

Already taking bets for most deactivated feature in Vista :D .
And who's fault will that be, certainly not Micrsoft's.
 
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Linux's privilege system isn't perfect. Many applications that require sudo have been exploited so that the entire system is compromised. Depending on the news you read, OSS is either full of security problems or as bad as Windows at most, either way there exist elevated security problems.

In my opinion it's pretty much a given that security problems WILL be found in Vista, and computers WILL get infected by trojans or spyware. The only question is of how fast Microsoft will patch the exploits when they're found.
 
WarmFluffyUK posted on Feb 11 2006 at 11:18 AM said:
G Morgan posted on Feb 11 2006 at 03:07 AM said:
My biggest worry is not the inclusion of a verying priveledge user based system but how many companies will just turn it off. You can guarentee MS will allow companies to do things the old way. My mother complains about having to click 2 more buttons to shut down in KDE compared to GNOME. She'd throw a fit over a Linux style su type system and so would many other people.

Already taking bets for most deactivated feature in Vista :D .
And who's fault will that be, certainly not Micrsoft's.


I think what I'm suggesting is that educating people in correct security measures will be far more valuable than MS installing a user priveledge system but giving you the oppotunity to turn it off.
 
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G Morgan posted on Feb 11 2006 at 03:07 AM said:
You are as a matter of fact a little bit wrong, Vista uses a system called LUa which means Least-privileged User Account. users will be running as non admin or low privileged status while being able to easily run applications requiring more privilege as necessary. It doesn't employ the same technology as Linux, but uses a form of access tokens and it has a basic execution model for running applications under Access Tokens. By default users will no longer be required to run as admin in daily practice. My earlier post was a simplified version of this, but if you want to go technical I am happy to :) .

Edit:
Please don't think I am saying Vista is aiming to replace Linux, as even I am not that stupid. I myself am experimenting with moving my NT based Servers to Ubuntu. I just think that Vista could be something good. If Microsoft get the security right, it will thwart them darned hackers and the scum who make a profit from spy ware. And in the process make my life a LOT easier!


LOL no I'm not, Why do you think I'm talking about User privliges. Which to be fair is interesting how it pans out. I've always thought it was somewhat overated on a single user machine. The new system on Vista is complicated, which to be honest I'm not sure about, Its either better or worse, and I suspect Legacy windows (readXP) apps will make a mess of it for a long time, but in the the long game, well I just dont know. I suspect that when it comes to administering large networks running MS only products it will be more secure(read everyone that *pays* and have lots of dosh). Although sandboxing all apps looks a really good feature.

I was thinking of it all. The feature that intrigues me (that may or may not be included) is the .NET CLI sripting stuff(read *possibly* better bash replacement). I'm also looking foward to the death of the registy and return to ini files. Trusted computing(to update all apps not just windows ones)

The three pillars are starting to look a little shaky, Winfs(In XP as well jst like IE7, but delayed), Avalon(Now built on DirectX, which I'd mock only I'm surprised they didn't do that in the first place). Indigo(That will sell machines LOL is it still included).

Its looking like a small jump, rather than a big one, there was lots to exited about(for those into IT, IE7/Sparkle etc), but it all seems a little tame, and suddenly everything is looking rather dull.

Its going to rely on what windows does best, and what matters to none computer people, eye candy, startup-times, and they are using latest technology to show it off hard drives with solid solid state memory(when they exist) and beefy graphics cards.

XP was built on NT, Vista on Server 2003. they should perhaps have sone this from the start(I'm blowing smoke out of my ass. It seems sensible, to have an evolution rather than a revolution, from a product out of the door, but then I don't have 20,000 programmers at my beck and call), but I was genually surprised that that wasn't the first option.

Vista will sell it won't be all singing all dancing. Its become nothing new, and has few(if any features) left to get exited about. I belive it will be a *better*(I hate that word) than XP. The only problem is they seem to be backtracking to meet a deadline. I feel now like its a product that could have been released 2-4 years ago(read Windows sever/DirectX everything else stripped), and inprovements are not innovative and are happening everywhere(reiserfs4,XGL)

Its all well at little late, What looked good on paper 6 years ago, now looks dull, Its done everywhere else(better/worse!!??). It looks old to me, and Its not going to be out for ages. Microsoft is playing catch-up. The fact that everyone hasn't moved to an alternative platform is a prividge *only* Microsoft could afford(and its a disgrace).

Now the big bad unpubliced insane DRM, and 7 different flavors(I couldn't cope with 2 flavors of XP). Not only is it out of date its crippleware, and restrictive.

Its going to sell on machines bundled with it, just like XP did, but like I say its so last years technology next year, but has features for those who have *had* to live with a 6 year old OS, but offers nothing to those who have looked elsewhere.

The most exiting think about Vista is linux machines(read XP capable machines), will get very cheap after launch. I know in the next 9/12/24 months a portable is going to start calling my name :).
 
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