What connectors would you like on the P2?


Binky

Binky

Death's Steed
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I'd be for:

  • miniUSB B can be used as charging input
  • two full-size USB 3.0/2.0/1.1/1.0 ports
  • -of which one high-current charging output
  • A similar high-current power input as on the P1 - cylindrical plugs are nice and easy to find on wall-warts
  • Two SDXC slots - Please don't argue about SD cards here, use on of the other threads instead
  • A set of 1mm pitch PCB header pins (female) for hacking/debuging
  • mini displayport out
  • 3.5mm jack plug
 
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In what context are people going to be using these full USB ports?


I could see one occasionally being useful for thumb drives and dongles, things that might not increase the form factor of the device that much and can be carried with it while maintaining portability. But two? The biggest use case there would be something like keyboard + mouse. Large components that you can't throw in your pocket, where the size of a hub doesn't add an awful lot to it.


I know this isn't the place to argue about SD type but I'm surprised that OPT considers a migration to microSD over full SD acceptable and uses industry trends to support this while staunchly sticking by full USB.


If you do have a high output current full USB port it'd work as high input current too, no reason you couldn't charge as effectively over it. USB to wall adapters are even easier to find.


As far video output, most TVs have HDMI-in.. how many have displayport? For the huge asking price of the Pandora 2 I think the licensing cost of HDMI is reasonable.
 
I'm not your typical user, so my input shouldn't be taken too seriously.


I've never used the miniUSB port, but I would be quite fine with it replacing the power input we have at the moment.


Two full USB ports of course... but for me usb 3 isn't as important as having support for usb 1.1/1.0


the 3.5mm audio jack of course!


whichever display out that will actually be supported! Looks like I'll own a P2 before I get my TV-Out cable. :(


No need to mention the sd slots here. :)
 
FaeMinx said:
whichever display out that will actually be supported! Looks like I'll own a P2 before I get my TV-Out cable. :(
Click to expand...

At least with a standard connector you won't need to worry about this happening again :/
 
Maybe a mini-SD card slot, since so many people use those darned things.


I'd also like to see a connector or something that includes parallel RS232 and serial RS232, so that I can make a pandora-to-1541 adapter without having to deal with the stupid USB controllers.
 
For me, a must:


Analogue video out is a must. Emulators doesn't work on a flat screen, I need to be able to use my CRT-TV, especially for PlayStation and N64, which my gamecube can't emulate very well


One host port (2.0 is fine if I get 1.1 support, couldn't care less about 3.0)


Fast-charging jack like our current PSP connector


headphone out


2 full-size SD card slots (SDXC would be nice, but I don̈́'t value it high since I can only afford sub-$30 cards anyways)


Extras that would be nice, but that I can live without:


Some form of DVI-out for dual-screen operation (be it HDMI, mini displayport or whatever, as long as there's an adapter to DVI available)


Some form of connector bringing out I²C, GPIO and other goodies, preferably not a proprietary connector with a minimum order quantity in the thousands


Mini-USB (µUSB is hopeless, not worth bothering with, they just tend to snap right off the board...)


Internal µSD slot
 
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TangentDelta said:
I'd also like to see a connector or something that includes parallel RS232 and serial RS232, so that I can make a pandora-to-1541 adapter without having to deal with the stupid USB controllers.
Click to expand...

What's parallel RS232...?

slaeshjag said:
For me, a must:


Analogue video out is a must. Emulators doesn't work on a flat screen, I need to be able to use my CRT-TV, especially for PlayStation and N64, which my gamecube can't emulate very well
Click to expand...

Why do emulators not work on a flat screen? I play emulators on my LCD TV all the time, don't have a problem with it. At the very least I hardly think that screen curvature was anyone's design consideration..
 
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Exophase said:
In what context are people going to be using these full USB ports?


I could see one occasionally being useful for thumb drives and dongles, things that might not increase the form factor of the device that much and can be carried with it while maintaining portability. But two? The biggest use case there would be something like keyboard + mouse. Large components that you can't throw in your pocket, where the size of a hub doesn't add an awful lot to it.


If you do have a high output current full USB port it'd work as high input current too, no reason you couldn't charge as effectively over it. USB to wall adapters are even easier to find.
Click to expand...

If we could charge effectively over full USB, then I would happily lose both the miniUSB and power in ports. In fact if doing so gave us space for two full size USB I would highly recommend going this route.


Then we would need 2 - one to charge/plug into mains and the other for a thumb drive/hub/mouse... and in some cases a keyboard / mouse combo.


I actually have a compact usb numpad I bought to use with my Pandora thinking it would be really useful in fps.


I also carry a small bag around with me containing all my Pandora accessories so two full USB ports would be very useful for me.
 
FaeMinx said:
If we could charge effectively over full USB, then I would happily lose both the miniUSB and power in ports. In fact if doing so gave us space for two full size USB I would highly recommend going this route.
Then we would need 2 - one to charge/plug into mains and the other for a thumb drive/hub/mouse... and in some cases a keyboard / mouse combo.


I actually have a compact usb numpad I bought to use with my Pandora thinking it would be really useful in fps.


I also carry a small bag around with me containing all my Pandora accessories so two full USB ports would be very useful for me.
Click to expand...

I use the mini-USB on the Pandora all the time as USB gadget. I don't mind using a full USB for this purpose but I'd really prefer that it actually can be used this way (this is not how host ports tend to work). This'll be less of an issue if the wifi doesn't suck, but it's still useful to have it over wifi for some other reasons.


If you carry around a small bag with all your Pandora stuff I really don't see the big headache in having a USB hub there.. then you're not limited to just two ports..

TangentDelta said:
LPT stuff, like what the old printers used (those long DB25 connectors).
Click to expand...

That's not parallel, that's just serial RS232 using the same DB25 connector with a LOT of wasted pins. Don't know why you'd want to use one of those for a serial connection but you'd bring that out as part of the adapter.
 
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I'd keep everything as it is in the Pandora 1, with the following modifications:


- replace the USB 2.0 with USB 3.0/2.0/1.1/1.0


- I can do without the miniUSB, could also replace it by microUSB


- HDMI or some other standard output instead of the ext connector (OR ship them with a cable)


- extra USB port if there's room for it; this is not essential
 
Exophase said:
high output current full USB port it'd work as high input current too
Click to expand...
Eh?I meant a full USB A socket. What kind of USB port allows the slave to power the host?


HDMI out might be reasonable. is it $10 per unit?


I know microUSB is rather weak, but I suspect using miniUSB B will leave us in the same position as we are now with miniUSB A
 
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Binky said:
Eh?I meant a full USB A socket. What kind of USB port allows the slave to power the host?
Click to expand...

Check out the new Power Deliver Spec: http://semiaccurate.com/2012/07/23/100w-over-usb-is-here-with-the-new-power-delivery-spec/

Binky said:
HDMI out might be reasonable. is it $10 per unit?
Click to expand...

It's $10k/year + $0.05/unit or $5k/year + $1/unit.

Binky said:
I know microUSB is rather weak, but I suspect using miniUSB B will leave us in the same position as we are now with miniUSB A
Click to expand...

What position would that be?
 
Binky said:
I'd be for:

  • miniUSB B can be used as charging input
  • two full-size USB 3.0/2.0/1.1/1.0 ports
  • -of which one high-current charging output
  • A similar high-current power input as on the P1 - cylindrical plugs are nice and easy to find on wall-warts
  • Two SDXC slots - Please don't argue about SD cards here, use on of the other threads instead
  • A set of 1mm pitch PCB header pins (female) for hacking/debuging
  • mini displayport out
  • 3.5mm jack plug
Click to expand...

My humble opinion: Remove everything that is not needed or redundant.


Mini USB instead of USB OTG - sure. That is the way things are going as OTG is pretty rare now. This should be a high current USB 3.0 device port - i.e. pull a full 1 AMP charge into the Pandora.


One full size USB 3.0 port is enough - if you need more, odds are you're hooking up to things large enough that having a hub isn't going to be a big inconvenience.


I disagree on the high-current charging output from the Pandora 2 to another device. I've gotten in trouble with this just charging a phone off of my Pandora WHILE it was plugged in and charging via the OTG port. Your high-current charging device would crush the Pandora 2's battery in 20-30 minutes.


I disagree on the high-current power input cylindrical plug. If we have a USB 3.0 high draw mini device port on the Pandora - that should be all of the charging input we need.


Two full sized SDXC slots - I agree. I don't care if they're both exposed or if one is exposed and the other internalized. Two are a must-have. One for boot, one for data.


I disagree on the PCB header pins exposed to the outside world. Yes, have them on the motherboard. I'd even go so far as to give an outline/indent on the inside of the case for modders to drill their own hole through the case. But I'd not leave an exposed lint hole in the case that 99% of the Pandora users would never populate. There are VERY few cases where these are even relevant these days as USB I/O has become so easy.


Skip the displayport, no hdmi, no dedicated video output. Do video output over USB 3.0 via a dongle/device. http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/05/displaylink-siig-usb-3-hdmi-adapter/ There are many of these types of devices coming on the market now. USB 3.0 has plenty of bandwidth to do it right.


3.5mm audio jack/plug. Please make it compatible with volume control & skip/pause headsets. Please please please turn MWeston loose again to give us the absolute best headphone audio experience that can be produced in a hand held device.


I consider all microphone inputs (both physical mic and in headphone jack and in current TV port to be extraneous. Anyone doing serious audio recording is going to use a USB - XLR mic adapter.


So - to summarize:


USB 3.0 device port with high draw charging (micro or mini or OTG or full sized footprint is fine)


USB 3.0 host port


Two full sized SDXC slots


3.5mm audio jack


Total of 4 holes/jacks/slots in the case instead of our current 6.


Only 3 holes in the case if one of the SDXC is internalized.


Svelte.
 
Exophase said:
Binky said:
I know microUSB is rather weak, but I suspect using miniUSB B will leave us in the same position as we are now with miniUSB A
Click to expand...

What position would that be?
Click to expand...

Mini A connectors are very hard to get hold of


---


If we're going to do video over USB, I'll keep the second USB 3.0 B socket


How about putting the less used connectors (PCB headers, video out etc ) behind a protective flap?


if primary charging is going to be as a USB slave device, I think I'd like full size USB B (to take higher currents and be more robust
 
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Opting for video out over USB3 instead of including an HDMI out (or mini-HDMI, or at least display port) is disadvantageous because it:


1) Requires you to buy an as of now $130 adapter to connect it to a normal TV


2) Requires you to use the USB port for this instead of something else


3) Requires more work on the SoC to get from the framebuffer to USB, at the very least requiring additional DMA and a lot of extra bandwidth vs the display controller outputting straight to HDMI


High end mobile SoCs these days come with HDMI transceivers on-chip, you don't need to add much electrically to get it working. And the license costs are small compared to the overall costs of the Pandora. TV-out is not a niche feature that few want, especially for a gaming device capable of handling 1080p output and full media playback. I don't see how this type of concession can be justified, you'd be saving a pretty small amount of money and a tiny amount of board space.
 
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Exposed on front:

  • SDXC 1
  • SDXC 2
  • 3.5mm stereo out



exposed on back:

  • USB 3.0 full-B (slave)
  • USB 3.0 full-A (host)



behind flap on back:

  • 1mm pitch PCB headers
  • displayport or HDMI out



available though PCB headers:

  • USB
  • stereo audio IN
  • stereo audio OUT
  • misc GPIOs
  • I2C
 
Exophase said:
Opting for video out over USB3 instead of including an HDMI out (or mini-HDMI, or at least display port) is disadvantageous because it:


1) Requires you to buy an as of now $130 adapter to connect it to a normal TV


2) Requires you to use the USB port for this instead of something else


3) Requires more work on the SoC to get from the framebuffer to USB, at the very least requiring additional DMA and a lot of extra bandwidth vs the display controller outputting straight to HDMI


High end mobile SoCs these days come with HDMI transceivers on-chip, you don't need to add much electrically to get it working. And the license costs are small compared to the overall costs of the Pandora. TV-out is not a niche feature that few want, especially for a gaming device capable of handling 1080p output and full media playback. I don't see how this type of concession can be justified, you'd be saving a pretty small amount of money and a tiny amount of board space.
Click to expand...

1) $130 was so 6 months ago. They're $50 now with full 1080p support - and becoming more and more common.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812240020&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA


2) If you're using the USB port for more than one thing - that is easily conquered with a hub. USB 3.0 has plenty of bandwidth to support video, a couple dozen game controllers, a few data cards, a gigabit Ethernet connector, etc... 5Gbit/sec is a -lot- of bandwidth in a handheld device.


Unless you're going to put a full sized HDMI port on the back, you're going to need to carry a dongle anyway. miniHDMI to HDMI cables are $8-$15 each.


It's not like you're going to walk up to a TV and just connect your Pandora to it without a cable - unless you're going to put wirelessHDMI or wirelessUSB or one of their derivatives in it as well. You're still going to need some form of adapter or cable to get there - whether it is via USB 3.0 or an HDMI port.

Exophase said:
Why put anything behind a flap, lesser used or not?
Click to expand...

Pocket lint.


Keys.


Dust.


2 year old kid's fingers.


Skip the 'behind the flap' stuff entirely. It can all be done over the main USB connector.
 
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