Weird complete freezes


timothee

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Hi there,


I've been experiencing some weird freezes at random moments (in-game) on the pandora. When they happen:

  • screen either turns black (but back-light is still on), or displays complete garbage and locks at that
  • both sd slot LEDs turn solid on
  • battery indicator is solid on as well



When I hit the freeze, the only way out I could find is to remove the battery. For extra safety, I remove both SD cards as well before re-inserting the battery. It usually takes several attempts at re-inserting the battery before things work again. On the first few attempts that fail, what happens is that the LED for SD slot 1 turns solid on (neither slots have sd cards in them at that point), while everything else is off, including the battery indicator, and of course the pandora doesn't boot.


This is not a case of flat/discharged battery: the battery is always above 60% when I had the failures. It even once happened when I was connected to AC.


Thoughts?


Tim.
 
Firstly, if your Pandora freezes, try holding the Pandora button while flicking the power switch - This should force a hardware reset.


The main thing that your problem makes me thing of is that you are overclocking to an unstable level. Are you overclocking/overvolting, and if so, to what points?


EDIT: Also, does this only occur within a specific game, or is it at any point where the system is under load?
 
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Sounds like it might be a problem with the battery not making proper contact. Try inserting a folded piece of paper between the battery and outer cover to help ensure good contact is made between the battery & Pandora.
 
Thanks for your input guys!

vadsamoht said:
Firstly, if your Pandora freezes, try holding the Pandora button while flicking the power switch - This should force a hardware reset.

Thanks, I must have missed that in the docs :p

vadsamoht said:
The main thing that your problem makes me thing of is that you are overclocking to an unstable level. Are you overclocking/overvolting, and if so, to what points?

I'm not overclocking. My pandora stays at 600 MHz in almost all cases.

vadsamoht said:
EDIT: Also, does this only occur within a specific game, or is it at any point where the system is under load?

The last freeze I remember occurred when playing snes9xp4. I forgot which game I was playing at the time, but I will note down specifics of failures when they happen again.

SONY said:
Also, try reinstalling HotFix 5 ok.

I'll do that.

Mr_Loon said:
Sounds like it might be a problem with the battery not making proper contact. Try inserting a folded piece of paper between the battery and outer cover to help ensure good contact is made between the battery & Pandora.

I'll see about that, the outer cover is already kind of bulging, indicating it's already pressing the battery quite hard :/ . but I'll check again anyway.


Tim.
 
You say the outer cover is already kinda bulging, so I may i ask if you leave it on the AC alot? As I'm sure you'll have seen the threads showing the battery can swell over time if on the charger for extended periods and as a result Wizardstan efforts to create fixes for this behaviour in the beta testing area.
 
You say the outer cover is already kinda bulging, so I may i ask if you leave it on the AC alot? As I'm sure you'll have seen the threads showing the battery can swell over time if on the charger for extended periods and as a result Wizardstan efforts to create fixes for this behaviour in the beta testing area.

Thanks, I've read the threads indeed. I charge every night, maximum 7 hours on AC at a stretch. The bulging I refer to was there from day one: the case just seem tight, that's all, and it does look like it's pressing the battery hard. Though on this topic, I must say I'm really looking forward to the improved charging patterns that have been mentioned.
 
You say the outer cover is already kinda bulging, so I may i ask if you leave it on the AC alot? As I'm sure you'll have seen the threads showing the battery can swell over time if on the charger for extended periods and as a result Wizardstan efforts to create fixes for this behaviour in the beta testing area.

Thanks, I've read the threads indeed. I charge every night, maximum 7 hours on AC at a stretch. The bulging I refer to was there from day one: the case just seem tight, that's all, and it does look like it's pressing the battery hard. Though on this topic, I must say I'm really looking forward to the improved charging patterns that have been mentioned.

Well, it doesn't sound like the battery is problematic. I had a few new ones that bulged the case - the reason here is the foil around the battery.


On some batteries, it's not really applied very well.


Remove the battery and try to wrap it a bit more around the edges, that usually fixes it.


It might well be that the bulging is responsible for bad contacts. If the foil isn't properly seated in the middle, then the area where the contacts are are a bit lifted up, which means they don't make a proper contact.


You could try that by softly hitting the Pandora when it's switched on. Does it freeze then?
 
Apologies to both you and ED. I badly worded that with the "I'm sure you've seen the threads about swollen batteries" bit, as this isn't a common problem at all. IIRC Timothee is a dev and as such may have left his unit plugged in for extraordinary periods of time whilst compiling things etc, which could in some cases lead to such an issue, as its not 'normal useage'. The sureness he would have seen this, come from the fact he's very active here and not likely to have missed the discussion that arose from the sole post about this.


ED's point of swelling affecting battery contact was what I was fishing for is all. Usually its Pike :p
 
Many thanks all for your replies, I appreciate very much the enthusiasm to fix my problem :)


I should clarify a few things: the freezes are random, as fas as I can tell, and they don't occur that often anyway, just enough to have me worried when they do. I haven't had a half-baked problem too: either the pandora is working great, or I get a freeze. So I think dmesg-ing something out is going to be hard :/


Also, I actually have 2 batteries, and I have experienced the freezes with both, I know for sure because on one of the first freezes, I thought the battery might be at fault and I swapped them. Another freeze came just a few days later.


Don't know if it matters: seeing how the standby mode eats battery charge, I do full switch off "often" during the day, when I know I'm not going to use the unit for a few hours. So the unit does go through a few full power cycles daily (maybe 4-5?).


And a last note before the specific replies: can I draw the focus back on the LED patterns? Is it a built-in diagnostic system? Does it "mean" anything when the LED for sd slot 1 is on (with no sd card present), but everything else is off, including the battery indicator?


Ah! as I was trying to take the battery out and in again (after a proper shut down), I had the same SD slot 1 LED on, battery indicator off issue. So I'll put that under user-error-battery-insertion-problem :unsure: . Still doesn't explain the freezes, but at least it probably takes care of the "several attempts at resetting the battery".

EvilDragon said:
Well, it doesn't sound like the battery is problematic. I had a few new ones that bulged the case - the reason here is the foil around the battery.


On some batteries, it's not really applied very well.


Remove the battery and try to wrap it a bit more around the edges, that usually fixes it.


It might well be that the bulging is responsible for bad contacts. If the foil isn't properly seated in the middle, then the area where the contacts are are a bit lifted up, which means they don't make a proper contact.


You could try that by softly hitting the Pandora when it's switched on. Does it freeze then?

Thanks for the advice ED. I tried that: no freeze :/ . I should have used a different term than "bulging" anyway, because it is confusing with the other swelled-up battery issue that has been reported. In my case, the battery looks alright, minus perhaps the wrapping like you mentioned (and I'm not even sure of that). What I was referring to is that the edge of the battery compartment cover doesn't always align nicely with the rest of the case, which does look like the battery is really pressed strongly (which is a good thing?).

SONY said:
Maximum charging should only be about 5 hours?

Yes Sony, 7 hours is the period where _I_ sleep. I haven't set up a special wake-up-now-and-go-unplug-your-pandora alarm ;)

MarioPandio said:
Apologies to both you and ED. I badly worded that with the "I'm sure you've seen the threads about swollen batteries" bit, as this isn't a common problem at all. IIRC Timothee is a dev.

Thanks MarioPandio. No apology needed. Anything that can point to me in the right direction is very welcome. I think you have me confused with someone else though, I'm not a dev in the pandora community :p ; just some random, reasonably linux savvy end-user, having a blast on a cool device; and also checking the boards regularly, mostly silently. My 40+ posts here hardly constitute "active" ;)

Alerino said:
dmesg output please, especially right after said behaviours happen, except a complete freeze (dmesg won't log that)


leaving the battery out / reflashing seems to solve most common problems.

Like I said, it might be hard to get anything dmesg-ed out of the failure cases I am experiencing :( . I've done the re-flash, let's see how far it takes me. I'll post here again if the issue doesn't go away.


Many thanks again to all of you, you guys rock!
 
Hmm, SD LED 1 on, battery off and no video is the state we get the boards in, when no bootloader is installed on the NAND yet.


Maybe the NAND has not been properly flashed and sometimes it can't read anymore from that?


Well, I got a few ideas here... a full reflash might help, as it reinstalls the NAND, so in case the filesystem has issues, this should fix it.


If that doesn't help, you could install an OS to your SD card and try if freezes occur as well when running the OS from the card.


In a further step, you could mount the NAND from the OS and see if it fails at one time - as the OS shouldn't crash when the NAND fails while it's running from SD.
 
I think I've read of SD cards which can crash the Pandora somewhere because they draw too much power or something. Do you have some cheap, fast SD card?
 
I have been experiencing similar behavior, and it is beginning to worry me. Random crashes completely freezing the system, and no help from pandabutton/power switch resets. I have to wait five minutes or so before I can get any sort of restart. Taking the battery out seems to help. I'll try a reflash and see if that helps, but this really seems to be a hardware issue since I seem to have to let it "cool off" before it will even allow me to reset.


Wow, after reset it just happened again as I type. I started up, pressed the start/alt button (as pressing the center button has been causing screen discoloration, I was checking to see if it got worse.) and the screen went purple then faded to white/black lines like in the photos below. After these crashes the lcd always looks like this:


IMG_20110826_145509.jpg



IMG_20110826_145518.jpg



After trying to reset/taking out battery. It will refuse to boot and the furthest left led will remain on. Eventually after several battery pulls it will work again.


And again! I just booted up, logged in and everything seemed fine. After pressing the D-pad once to navigate the bluetooth menu it reset! That's 3 resets in the last 20 minutes!


I'm sorry for seeming ridiculous, but I can't even get it to stay on long enough to find out what is happening! Now I'm just worried I won't be able to fix it. I'll try booting from the SD to see how that fares.


EDIT: Well I got it to work long enough to test the app I was working on. Interestingly enough it worked fine until a few minutes after I plugged in the charger. Perhaps this has something to do with it.
 
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Fat enough. Fits quite snug. The battery connects even before the case is snapped all the way closed and there is zero movement after it is shut.
 
May I venture a guess that in this case, it is not resetting, but, as Alerino suggests, the LCD cable has failed?


It's what happened with mine, as well (except I had no tint as a warning).


A pretty surefire way to see if it's actually crashing or if it's that, is to have some music or a game playing - if the sound remains, you know for certain it's the LCD cable.
 
Really? I thought from the numerous battery pulls that this was a different issue. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed with an RMA.
 
Also, try if that also happens when running from AC without battery in (if your unit supports that, doesn't work with all units)
 
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