Wait For The Xgp Mini Or Dive Into A Gp2x?

[semicolon]

Hi folks!

I started eying the gp2x around 3 months before it launched in the US.
I thought it was a marvelous idea, sounded like something I'd love to have, but thought it was going to be a total flop.

Today I looked back into it and boy was I wrong. The community support has been outstanding and the gp2x seems to be more than I could have hoped it to be. I'm hooked, ready to invest!

But then, what's this? The XGP Mini! The form factor, style, hardware specs, and proposed market price look AMAZING. I want this thing!

I have no problem waiting for the XGP Mini to come out (Well... no more than 6 months, please.) but as it's developed by Game Park and not Game Park Holdings I'm worried, like I was with the gp2x, that the community will not support it... I'm also concerned about what I've heard- gp2x apps are not directly compatable with the XGP Mini? This will not be running a comparable operating system (flavor of linux) to the GP2X?

I'm just posting because I would like to start a discussion about people considering purchasing a GP2X or waiting for the Mini (which looks immaculate, oh man.) Any advice? Thoughts? Flames?

 

[sehs33]

There have been alot of talks about XGP series, and honestly am one of the people who believe they will never be released.

In case you will want to wait until it is released, you should be prepared for the following:

1) You would wait for a very very long time.
2) There will be almost nothing for it once it is released, developers will need time to port emulators and more time to update them until they are perfect.
3) You will have to wait until the hardware is "stable", you don't want bad soldered headphone sockets like the one we first had with MK I GP2Xs
4) You can never be sure that all supporters will upgrade to XGP, I will not be paying $200 just to have one or two more powerful emulators the GP2X can't handle.

That is my opinion, and in the end it is your choice...

 

[semicolon]

That is my opinion, and in the end it is your choice...

I appreciate the reply

The more I think about it, because this IS a GP and not GP Holdings product which doesn't even seem to actually be running on linux(??) I am leaning towards just plunking down the 190 USD (a bit more than I was hoping to spend) on the gp2x.

I'll give it a couple months to see if any news about an official release date for the Mini surfaces.

And hey, if the Mini comes out and proves to be a nice platform, these gp2x's should have a pretty nice resale value, seeing as they're such capable machines and aren't very common?

 

[Racemaniac]

i doubt the emus will ever get ported to the gxp (mini). afaik, it's gonna be a completely commercial handheld, where they don't want the community to code for it (so no release of tools for it etc...). it's probably gonna be too bothersome to make something on it, to justify the exposure of your program with it. there won't be so many that buy it, and it'll probably take a lot of time porting to it (if a way to run homebrew is found, that is)

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

i doubt the emus will ever get ported to the gxp (mini). afaik, it's gonna be a completely commercial handheld, where they don't want the community to code for it (so no release of tools for it etc...). it's probably gonna be too bothersome to make something on it, to justify the exposure of your program with it. there won't be so many that buy it, and it'll probably take a lot of time porting to it (if a way to run homebrew is found, that is)

Are we sure that the XGP, XGP Mini and XGP kids are going to be closed source? from what I can gather, they are rumored to be open source. If they are open source, I can see devs leaping to the XGP (Probably not the mini) in a flash.

 

[Orkie]

I certainly recall them saying many times the XGPs will be open for anybody to develop on.

 

[NoidZ]

Don't know if I'm gonna buy one.. The machine looks really nice, but the GP2X has lots of software already, and it CAN handle it all. Just give it some time and all the emu's like SNES en GBA will eventualy be at full speed.

 

[SiDCrAzY]

I'm far more interested in the XGP than in the XGP Mini, but hey if you have the money why not buy a GP2X now and buy the XGP Mini whenever it comes out a year from now or so...

That's what I'm doing, unless of course the XGP turns out to be a big flop then I have no problem sticking with my GP2X and waiting until the next best thing comes along.

 

[Racemaniac]

i doubt the emus will ever get ported to the gxp (mini). afaik, it's gonna be a completely commercial handheld, where they don't want the community to code for it (so no release of tools for it etc...). it's probably gonna be too bothersome to make something on it, to justify the exposure of your program with it. there won't be so many that buy it, and it'll probably take a lot of time porting to it (if a way to run homebrew is found, that is)

Are we sure that the XGP, XGP Mini and XGP kids are going to be closed source? from what I can gather, they are rumored to be open source. If they are open source, I can see devs leaping to the XGP (Probably not the mini) in a flash.

would be great if they're open source. i haven't been following up on them at all, i just remember that he main difference was that the xgp was supposed to be a psp wannabe, closed source with lots of commercial titles.
maybe that's changed by now.

wasn't that the reason gamepark and gamepark holdings split? one wanted to make an open source handheld, the other a commercial closed source one?

 

[SiDCrAzY]

I remember Shinneri mentioning various times that the XGP will in fact be open source.

 

[reaper79]

Yes GP decided to make the XGP open. I think I even read rumors of backward compatibility with the GP32, but don't quote me on that. As far as I'm concerned the XGP, and all its derivitives, are vaporware. It is a nice handheld on paper, but at this time that is all there is. Oh, and of course some 3D renderings ;-)


Wow, an XGP discussion... where is Epicenter? He'd be able to tell you all about this thing.

 

[xenon_soft]

Actually, talking about XGP it's talking about vaporware. And GP2X it's a great machine which I enjoy everyday. I have voted the "Get that GP2X!" option.

 

[Fishbong]

i doubt the emus will ever get ported to the gxp (mini). afaik, it's gonna be a completely commercial handheld, where they don't want the community to code for it (so no release of tools for it etc...). it's probably gonna be too bothersome to make something on it, to justify the exposure of your program with it. there won't be so many that buy it, and it'll probably take a lot of time porting to it (if a way to run homebrew is found, that is)

Are we sure that the XGP, XGP Mini and XGP kids are going to be closed source? from what I can gather, they are rumored to be open source. If they are open source, I can see devs leaping to the XGP (Probably not the mini) in a flash.

None of the XGPs will be opensource, but GP promised a free sdk. Noone knows how homebrew will work, perhaps it will need to be signed to run on all handhelds and not just the developers, perhaps we will need some sort of freelauncher again, who knows. But it won´t and can´t be opensource since the documentation of the graphoic chip is most certainly not open.

 

[Guyfawkes]

I personally think the XGP will never be released, from what I have read throughout the year they have looking for commercial games support and if I remember right funding from other businesses, they didn't get much of either. I would be very surprised if this is ever released.

 

[jimmyslam]

go for the GP2X I did the same, and I waited for 4 months... and in the end i bought the GP2X on March, is brilliant!

 

[Epicenter]

My apologies in advance for the length of this post, but I'd like to be as thorough as possible in my response and address a few misconceptions about GP's goals with the machine while I'm at it.

GamePark has stated they will be making the systems fully open to homebrew development-- and that success of XGP hinges on the ability of the community to develop their own content-- homebrew games, and emulators. They're well aware of what the community is making use of the GP2X for, and what reasons the GP32 was applauded for (emulation, homebrew, of course). They are also working to secure licensed commercial content, but they expect the primary success of the machine to be user-created. They will be releasing a free SDK with the machines.

Every indication I've seen from GP thus far indicates they will be opting for Linux (they do other work porting Linux to consumer electronics devices, and writing embedded firmware for similar platforms-- so we do know they have experience in the software side of things. GPH farmed out that job to MagicEyes' horrible partner Dignsys for their firmware to decrease MMSP2 costs.)

GP2X software that does not reply on custom code (e.g. use of the ARM940T-- nearly all GP2X software) should work fine on an XGP handheld with just a recompile. Software that will take full advantage of the hardware's 2D/3D Acceleration will require new code adhering to the OpenGL-ES standard, unless a library is written to allow hardware acceleration through SDL (this should not be terribly difficult, probably a project Paeryn would be fantastic at.) SDL natively has a wrapper for OpenGL, so coding for the XGP should be just as easy as coding for the GP2X, with a broader range of possibilities.

If most of what you're concerned about is emulation, out of the gate emulators should port over in more-or-less 'drag and drop' fashion with identical or superior performance (depending on hardware specification, 'slightly faster' or 'extremely faster'). Of course, optimization of emulators to take full advantage of 2D/3D acceleration for vastly better performance in SNES, PSX and other emulation tasks will require rewriting of portions of emulators-- though the benefits are absolutely worth the invested time. I can't say exactly what specifications are under consideration. However, one of the choices under consideration would yield staggering performance advances with no changes to emulation software- just a recompile- on GP's new handhelds.

If you insist on perfection, you might want to wait for reviews of course, because the first generation may have unknown faults. But given GP's stated and demonstrated dedication to preventing the problems that plagued the GP32 (which, notably, were not nearly as catastrophic as the GP2X's faults), I expect they'll be releasing a solid enough product. I doubt it will be up to Nintendo or Sony's quality standards (not that Sony's are much to speak of), but I don't expect you'll be seeing any parts falling off.

GP's doing quite a bit of prototyping; they've even built working XGP/XGPmini units with the old hardware spec (VRender-3D processor, 266 MHz ARM920T, 2D/3D Accelerator, so on and so forth), and we've seen that they do, in fact, work, and run game software, videos, et cetera. GPH's approach was to mass-produce a known-faulty prototype, due to lack of funds, using pre-order money. If GP doesn't repeat GPH's mistakes (I highly doubt they will, since they've lamented them), the launch should be more impressive.

If the GP2X is 'good enough' for you right now, it might be a good idea to tide you over-- but I would keep as open-minded as possible and ready to look into the XGP when it rolls around. I personally found the GP2X unacceptable, so this will influence my recommendations, of course. But all in all, if you are OK with a faulty control stick, relatively anemic battery life, mediocre LCD viewing angle and crash-prone media playback applications, you'll probably be happy enough with the GP2X. As a developer, however, its many issues kept me from really enjoying it. Your experience might be totally different.

 

[Alex.]

But all in all, if you are OK with a faulty control stick,

The stick is fine, you simply need to get used to it, say, after 15 minutes of play. Stop expecting everything to be the same for every single piece of hardware, and bitch and moan when it isn't.

relatively anemic battery life,

Relative to what exactly? The battery life is GREAT, read that word, GREAT. It's a 200Mhz+ handheld computer, with sound output and large, backlit colour screen we're talking about here, not a GBA. Look at the PSP, that gets much less battery life than the GP2X, and it runs on a proprietary energy source, and was made by Sony. Do you hang around various PSP forums spreading your slimy words there, too, or did you decide to just stick with the most patient of enthusiast communities and badger them for that very reason?

mediocre LCD viewing angle

You're right, the bright, crisp, colorful screen is a crock of shit, for the very reasons I wrote a couple of words back: bright, crisp, colorful. Right.

and crash-prone media playback applications, you'll probably be happy enough with the GP2X.

I watched videos on it all summer long, and that was on firmware 2.0, and I personally recall experiencing no crashes. Now they supposedly improved it in 2.1 (I never tried, so I can't vouch, but it couldn't be worse than 2.0 now could it)

Definitely get the GP2X, the community around it is fantastic, the hardware is decent, and the software library available for it is explosive, and only getting better by the day.

- Alex

 

[jimmyslam]

Epicenter you talk too much rubbish:

GP2X software that does not reply on custom code (e.g. use of the ARM940T-- nearly all GP2X software) should work fine on an XGP handheld with just a recompile.

That if is using SDL. But there are lots of programs that doesnt use SDL.

If most of what you're concerned about is emulation, out of the gate emulators should port over in more-or-less 'drag and drop' fashion with identical or superior performance (depending on hardware specification, 'slightly faster' or 'extremely faster').

LOL, WTF u know!

Of course, optimization of emulators to take full advantage of 2D/3D acceleration for vastly better performance in SNES, PSX....

Again, that is totally rubbish on the case of SNES.

Honestly...

....I can't say exactly what specifications are under consideration. However, one of the choices under consideration would yield staggering performance advances with no changes to emulation software- just a recompile- on GP's new handhelds....

Again....

If you insist on perfection, you might want to wait for reviews of course, because the first generation may have unknown faults. But given GP's stated and demonstrated dedication to preventing the problems that plagued the GP32 (which, notably, were not nearly as catastrophic as the GP2X's faults)

Castatrofic problems? Where?!

I personally found the GP2X unacceptable...
But all in all, if you are OK with a faulty control stick, relatively anemic battery life, mediocre LCD viewing angle and crash-prone media playback applications, you'll probably be happy enough with the GP2X.

I dont experience any of those problems. Maybe i have a gp2x - non epicenter version....

As a developer, however, its many issues kept me from really enjoying it.

You must be a crap developer cause u are the first developer moaning about developing for this machine.

This machine is the perfect device for developers.

Honestly...

 

[Epicenter]

Battery life is worse than it should be. While I won't say 4 hours average is a bad thing, a '200 MHz computer' based on an ARM9 processor that uses thousanths of a watt should get much better battery life. The issue there is that MagicEyes' implementation of the processors and accessory hardware breaks convention for the ARM platform and is markedly inefficient. If you compare against PDAs with similar processors built into SoCs by say, Samsung and Texas Instruments, even with more power-hungry LCD backlights and more powerful support hardware (2D accelerators and more peripheral controllers), you'll note higher battery life (so long as you're not trying to use WiFi or Bluetooth), with similar-capacity LiIon cells to the capacity of NiMH cells used by most GP2X owners.

As for the screen, I know it's crisp, bright, and colorful. Those aren't problems. I just said the viewing angle is mediocre. No need to get so militant.

The stick, well, that's up to every user to decide on. I despise it. Others either love it, like it, are indifferent, dislike it or hate it. Preference.

Please relax. This much excitement can't be good for your heart.

Again, that is totally rubbish on the case of SNES.

Honestly...

The only cause for slowdown in SNES emulation is that the 2D system is very, very stressful to emulate,
and the graphics core is inefficient. It needs to be rewritten either way. Some things like basic drawing
of a scene should run at full speed in all games on the GP2X at that point. But some tasks like transparencies
and intensive scaling and rotation will work remarkably faster on a system with 2D acceleration. (This is the reason
SNES emulation is snappier on the DS, despite its CPU that is many times slower than the GP2X's. The SNES' other
subsystems are not stressful to emulate. Its graphics subsystem is.

That if is using SDL. But there are lots of programs that doesnt use SDL.

Over 90% of the GP2X's existing software does. Most likely more. The rest are Linux applications that
will be very easy to port-- it would be a job for a spare afternoon or two. The exception is programs that
rely on custom code for the GP2X in particular like Vektar, Payback or scene demos. PicoDrive makes use
of the 940T coprocessor but this functionality can be disabled to shift that work back to the main CPU.

You must be a crap developer cause u are the first developer moaning about developing for this machine.
U TALK TOO MUCH RUBISH, SHUT UP NOW MAN.

The OP asked for opinions and views. I provided mine. I'm not personally attacking you, yet you are personally attacking me, and in a rather immature fashion.
Can we please try to discuss this on an adult level? Thanks.

 

[Orkie]

The stick is fine, you simply need to get used to it, say, after 15 minutes of play. Stop expecting everything to be the same for every single piece of hardware, and bitch and moan when it isn't.

For some applications, the stick is fine, for others, it is unusable. After 9 months of play, I still can't get very far in any Mario games on the GP2X (on the real console, with a d-pad, I can almost always get quite close to the end of Mario 3, if not complete it) because the distance between left and right is too great so it is impossible to stop quickly.