The Suspend Functionality

[kuru]

I'd prefer that the GUI developers embrace cryopid, so that games can be frozen to disk by the shell and defrosted later. This would mean that any game or emu can simply be state-saved to the SD card and restarted again later. So the shell could freeze the currently running executable, shut the machine down to total low-power state, and then when the user wants to, re-animate the frozen app again to pick up where it was left off. This would avoid a lot of hassles with s2ram and the Linux kernel and so on, and it would also mean that any app on Pandora can have save-states without having to implement them.

Cryopid is definitely worth investigating, anyway, imho.

I did a little search on cryoPid, this indeed sounds like a very handy tool, I'm hoping there will soon be support for X apps...

Speaking of that, does it mean we can, as long as someone ports this tool to ARM, use it for the app launcher with only a minor modification of the launcher (as in after exiting suspend just execute the freeze-file), but not in the desktop environment?

 

[torpor]

Speaking of that, does it mean we can, as long as someone ports this tool to ARM, use it for the app launcher with only a minor modification of the launcher (as in after exiting suspend just execute the freeze-file), but not in the desktop environment?

Yeah, the launcher would be the place to do this ..

 

[notaz]

I think all OMAP3-related job is already done since we have Always Innovating Touch Book (doesn't it support suspending?).

It does? I somehow doubt that. Anyone with AI Touchbook here?

 

[gruso]

Anyone with AI Touchbook here?

These two guys I believe:

http://www.gp32x.de...er/5926-torpor/

http://www.gp32x.de...17194-viridior/

 

[torpor]

There is *absolutely pitiful* support for power management in the Touchbook right now. Perhaps - hopefully - we shall see - this will change in the next few weeks, but the way it is right now with the Touchbook goes like this:

1. Plug the Touchbook in, use it.
2. Watch it charge while in use.
3. Do not shut down the Touchbook! It will not charge unless its in use.
4. All power is drained, goto step #1.

The TB has *zero* power-saving capabilities right now - it sort of remains to be seen whats up with this. I have a feeling the TBOS hackers are keeping an eye on Pandora for the purposes of deciding whether they - or we - are going to do the dirty work ..

My vote: we should do the dirty work.


One nice thing about the Touchbook that I hope we inherit in the OpenPandora project is the inclusion of a compiler onboard. I was able to put the sources for a 3D game engine on the Touchbook and compile them, it was one of the nicest ports I've ever done .. very good feature.

 

[peca]

I've never used suspend or hibernate and I've been using + fixing computers for more than 25 years :lol:

My wife have got Eee 901 and only suspend it to RAM. Every time she need take a look at net (ie on TV program, search for something, just send a message) he Eee is ready. OK, it take about 1 - 2 minutes to fully operate due to combination Windows XP, HW power and other SW stuff :-/, but it is really handy.

I using hybernation (suspend to disk) feature occasionally. When I hurry and have a lot of in process, I like to hibernate notebook. Next day I can continue where I leave work off.

I really like working suspend to RAM on Pandora. Working suspend to disk should be neat in power emergency. I'll rather continue in previous session restored from disk, then with clear desktop after OS boot.

 

[Tor]

There's no suspend to RAM in my N800, and I've never missed it, or even thought about it. It's always on. The only thing I do is to lock the screen now and then (it will in any case turn it off after being idle for a configurable interval).

With the monster battery in the Pandora there will be even less need. I can't see the point at all, really. What would I want it for? If the power saving features are reasonably OK then it should last a week before I should start thinking about maybe topping up the battery a bit. If I go away on mission for a month and leave the Pandora at home I won't need suspend to RAM either, it'll be simpler just to turn it off.

The only problem would be if the power saving features are completely missing. Are there any indications of this?

 

[skeezix]

ED had the pretty cool idea of a 'low power mode' there, mentioned above; I'm going to make a little daemon to watch events like lid-open and lid-close (and some other stuff), and have it invoke scripts as a result; then we can have scripts disable the backlight, set the clock down, mess with drivers, all that stuff. Shoudl be a pretty easy and handy system .. close lid, screen goes off and cpu goes down. Change the scripts if you want to change the behaviour. (Heck, I could make it use the libpnd searchpaths, so scripts could be overridden based on SD cards and such, without altering firmware.)

Seems like a clever idea to me

(The same daemon will watch for Menu key and bring up a defined script, so you can define what happens at that point.)

jeff

 

[WizardStan]

Heck, I could make it use the libpnd searchpaths, so scripts could be overridden based on SD cards and such, without altering firmware.

Be careful there. That's approaching the "PND should not be autorun" thing that some people were very vocally against.

 

[MWeston]

I know of some work being done with the Beagleboard to lower the idle current to as little as possible. They say they have it down to 17mA right now which is pretty good. Pandora has more hardware that would need to be put into idle mode so let's double that and that would put the idle time at 123 hours. It's still just speculation, but these are the kinds of things being worked on slowly.

Note that this is different than suspending to RAM and turning everything off but the RAM. Off time would be much longer in that case but requires a larger software effort, likely community driven.

 

[devhace]

For me, suspend is a HUGE convenience that is fairly important. Being able to open this up quickly and check something on the web real quick, etc instead of using a full computer. For netbook like functionality, the suspend feature is very important.

 

[Vitel]

I'm going to make a little daemon to watch events like lid-open and lid-close

Take a look at actkbd.

 

[fischju2000]

Extreme downclocking sounds like a good alternative to an actual suspend to ram, as it should be instant and still give huge power savings. Maybe even preferable in most circumstances.

 

[MWeston]

Extreme downclocking sounds like a good alternative to an actual suspend to ram, as it should be instant and still give huge power savings. Maybe even preferable in most circumstances.

If done right, it would look like the unit was being shut off and most users wouldn't even know! That's what the iPhone, N8xx devices and all of those do. If you ever put an ammeter in series with the charge path of an iPod/iPhone you will see that thing is constantly bouncing around with different current usage as things wake up and go right back to sleep. They probably don't suspend to RAM because of the complications Notaz speaks off. I can see this kind of faux suspend being done along the timeline ED is hoping for. A full suspend to RAM could take much longer to develop and might get abandoned when people are fine with 5-6 days on standby instead of something closer to two weeks. Still, it would be nice to have both in the long run.

 

[Dead1nside]

Extreme downclocking sounds like a good alternative to an actual suspend to ram, as it should be instant and still give huge power savings. Maybe even preferable in most circumstances.

If done right, it would look like the unit was being shut off and most users wouldn't even know! That's what the iPhone, N8xx devices and all of those do. If you ever put an ammeter in series with the charge path of an iPod/iPhone you will see that thing is constantly bouncing around with different current usage as things wake up and go right back to sleep. They probably don't suspend to RAM because of the complications Notaz speaks off. I can see this kind of faux suspend being done along the timeline ED is hoping for. A full suspend to RAM could take much longer to develop and might get abandoned when people are fine with 5-6 days on standby instead of something closer to two weeks. Still, it would be nice to have both in the long run.

Interesting that not many of the major manufacturers even have true suspend to RAM. It would be nice to have but if I'm really not expecting to use it I will just power it down, certainly wouldn't leave it faux-suspended for more than a day.

 

[fusion_power]

I don't know much about these Power-Saving Techniques. Onto My PC I use "Suspend to Disk" I think in english it is the "Hibernation" mode, in german simply the "Ruhezustand". The OS writes the RAM to the HD and it even works with Vista.
Why need a Pandora-Driver support this (somehow)? If you simply write the RAM to Disc, you write everything, Drivers, Programms...
I imagine that no Program need to know that it is now no longer part of the RAM. Just switch the unit off this way, and if you turn it on, the "Image" is back from SD to the RAM and everything continues where it has stopped.
I'm wrong, right? ^_^

 

[Lorkile]

At first when reading the poll I knew that something akin to suspend is rather vital for the actual functionality of the device, at least for short bursts of usage and portability.

But, further reading and it seems the actual function isn't necessary to retain such usage (even though it seems it would be ideal). So I had to change my vote as the UI does seem important, though I think being able to close the screen and then open it again later is rather important to reviewers as well so I'm glad things are being taken care of as best can be hoped for.

 

[WizardStan]

For me, suspend is a HUGE convenience that is fairly important. Being able to open this up quickly and check something on the web real quick, etc instead of using a full computer. For netbook like functionality, the suspend feature is very important.

That isn't (necessarily) suspend. What has been proposed will do exactly what you want without suspending. Therefore suspend is not important to you. LOGIC!

 

[zhasha]

For me, suspend is a HUGE convenience that is fairly important. Being able to open this up quickly and check something on the web real quick, etc instead of using a full computer. For netbook like functionality, the suspend feature is very important.

That isn't (necessarily) suspend. What has been proposed will do exactly what you want without suspending. Therefore suspend is not important to you. LOGIC!

Behold as I turn Mother into a stone.
A stone can't fly.
Mother can't fly.
Ergo: Mother is a stone.

At least that's what your logic reminded me of. (loosely translated from Erasmus Montanus)
I will however say that it's very probably that OMAP will achieve suspend in the near future as there's a [redacted]-ton of work going into omap-pm (powermanagement). I'd always prefer real suspension to very very low power mode, as suspension actually shuts everything but the RAM off. That said, very very low power mode could potentially be useful for operating only the DSP and buffering music once in a while, turning the Pandora into a portable music player with 100hrs of play time. I guess in reality I want both

 

[WizardStan]

Behold as I turn Mother into a stone.
A stone can't fly.
Mother can't fly.
Ergo: Mother is a stone.

At least that's what your logic reminded me of. (loosely translated from Erasmus Montanus)

No. My logic here goes:
I like Dees specifically because they doot.
There are other things that doot that I will also like specifically because they doot.
Therefore it's not that I like Dees, but I do like things that doot.

In this case, devhace has said that suspend (dee) is important because it give the quick uptime vs a full boot (the doot). But the reality is that suspend isn't the only way of achieving this; it isn't the suspend that is important, but the instant on feature it supplies.