Should the Codec Pack be on the repo?

[levi]

As it stands the Codec Pack is only available on a non-browsable folder on openpandora.org, and only discoverable thanks to direct links from users on these boards, posts to pandoralive (and the now defunct pandorapress) and a number of now threatened pages on the old wiki.


Would it make more sense to host it on the repo? Then, searching for it there would probably show it up as the first hit, rather than as the second or third hit on the Wiki. And as many pages as wanted could refer to it on the wiki, but it'd only take one change to redirect them all to the latest version if there were an update made to it.


If I was to make a guess, the only reason it's not on the repo today is because the last codec pack update was in 2010 apparently, and the repo didn't exist until early 2011.


So assuming it does make sense, what would it take to get it hosted on the repo? Presumably it ought be uploaded by someone with the wherewithal to rebuild it, rather than me.

 

[sebt3]

The reals issues are :

- there is no defined maintainer for the codec pack

- it's PXML probably doesnt match the repo rules meaning an update is requiered

 

[ekianjo]

- there is no defined maintainer for the codec pack

Who did it in the first place btw ?

and only discoverable thanks to direct links from users on these boards, and a number of now threatened pages on the old wiki.

However I clearly mention on it on my "what to do after a reflash" post on Pandoralive. With links to it

 

[levi]

Of course, how could I forget your excellent guide. I've updated the FP.

 

[skeezix]

It was packaged by ED I think. Sorely needs a refresh

The big question with codec pack is legality of it all (due to messed up copyright laws being differewntly messed up everywhere);but is that no different from the OP site to the repo?

jeff

 

[Mr_Loon]

...

If I was to make a guess, the only reason it's not on the repo today is because the last codec pack update was in 2010 apparently, and the repo didn't exist until early 2011.


...

My guess is that the fact some of the codecs require paid licences (e.g. MP3, MPEG) in some countries may have been an additional factor for keeping it off the Repo, though giving this some thought I can't really see why it's not included with its current warning to this effect.

EDIT :  h34r:

 

[crow_riot]

Wouldn't it be easiest to add a quick zentiy script that downloads it on the users behalf and installs? No need to be in the repo as is but just a mini-pnd that calls wget and so on? That could even reside in the System menu (cant remember exactly)?

 

[comradekingu]

Thanks for picking this up Levi.

The repo is hosted in germany (?) and i should think the same laws apply to hosting it as direct download.

I believe the laws in differing countries have something against shipping mp3, libdvd and libbluray.

Could the mp3 decoder be updated to a free equivalent and everything would be fine?

On the wiki the codec pack is a needlessly complex and verbose part of the otherwise brilliant quickstart guide.

 

[WizardStan]

Could the mp3 decoder be updated to a free equivalent and everything would be fine?

No. MP3 decoding is patented. It's not the code we need to worry about, it's the algorithm, and there's really just no way to decode an MP3 with any other algorithm. The MP3 library being used is already about as free as possible but it's still encumbered by patents.

 

[comradekingu]

If mp3 is the only offending part we could omit that and instead do one without.

I think it makes sense to write a part about how ogg is better for compression, flac is best for lossless and opus is best for time critical streaming, instead.

If you then do need mp3 it can be had via opkg (?)

If not, and in any event, get it on the repo and make sure to state the license.

 

[WizardStan]

If mp3 is the only offending part we could omit that and instead do one without.

It isn't. Everything in the codec pack is encumbered in a similar way, I'm pretty sure. I can't remember everything in the codec pack, but at least MP3 and NTFS are patent protected.
As far as I'm aware (and I could be mistaken) exFAT is similarly patent protected, but we've got a free handler on the repo, but that was uploaded by a user, not by the official sources.

Realistically I don't think there's anything wrong with putting the codec pack on the repo as long as the license does make it clear that it is protected in certain countries by patents and that licensing costs may be applicable blah blah blah. Most Linux flavours have these various plugins and such in a repo specifically labeled for such things and they haven't had any legal troubles. OPT should be able to get away with the same thing.

 

[captain_coconut]

One question I have about the codec pack is what programs in the repo actually use it?  I haven't installed the codec pack in ages and wonder if it is obsolete.

 

[WizardStan]

So here's the complete list of every package that's in the codec pack:

Spoiler

boost-date-time_1.41.0-r8.1.5, boost-thread_1.41.0-r8.1.5, directfb_1.4.2-r0.5, gnash_0.8.5-r6.5, gnome-mplayer_0.9.9.2-r10.0.5, gst-plugin-alaw_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-alpha_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-alphacolor_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-alsaspdif_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-annodex_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-apetag_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-audiofx_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-auparse_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-autodetect_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-avi_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-bayer_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-bz2_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-cairo_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-cdxaparse_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-cutter_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-debug_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-deinterlace_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-dfbvideosink_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-dvb_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-dvdspu_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-efence_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-effectv_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-equalizer_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-esd_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-faac_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-faad_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-festival_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-filter_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-flvdemux_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-flxdec_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-freeze_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-gamma_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-gdkpixbuf_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-goom_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-goom2k1_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-gsm_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-h264parse_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-halelements_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-icydemux_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-id3demux_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-interleave_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-ivorbis_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-jack_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-jpeg_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-level_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-matroska_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-metadata_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-modplug_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-monoscope_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-mpeg4videoparse_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-mpegtsparse_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-mpegvideoparse_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-mulaw_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-multifile_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-multipart_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-mve_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-navigationtest_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-nsf_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-nuvdemux_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-ossaudio_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-png_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-pulse_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-qtdemux_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-rawparse_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-replaygain_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-rfbsrc_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-rtp_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-rtpmanager_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-rtsp_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugins-bad_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugins-bad-apps_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugins-bad-meta_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-sdpelem_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-selector_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugins-good_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugins-good-apps_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugins-good-meta_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-smpte_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-sndfile_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-souphttpsrc_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-spectrum_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-speed_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-speexresample_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-stereo_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-tta_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-udp_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-vcdsrc_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-video4linux2_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-videobalance_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-videobox_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-videocrop_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-videoflip_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-videomixer_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-videosignal_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-vmnc_0.10.6-r2.1, gst-plugin-wavenc_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-wavparse_0.10.13-r1.1, gst-plugin-y4menc_0.10.6-r2.1, libaudiofile0_0.2.6-r8.5, libdiscid0_0.2.2-r0.5, libdvdcss2_1.2.10-r1.5, libdvdread3_0.9.7-r1.5, libesd0_0.2.36-r3.5, libfaad0_2.0-r2.5, libgdbm3_1.8.3-r3.5, libgif4_4.1.6-r2.5, libgnashamf_0.8.5-r6.5, libgnashbase_0.8.5-r6.5, libgpod_0.7.92-r0.5, libldap-2.4-2_2.4.21-r0.5, libmusicbrainz3-6_3.0.2-r1.5, libneon25_0.25.5-r4.5, libpulse0_0.9.15-r9.6.5, libpulsecommon_0.9.15-r9.6.5, libsamplerate0_0.1.7-r1.5, libxss1_1.2.0-r1.5, mplayer_0.0+1.0rc3+svnr30165-r20.5, mplayer-common_0.0.1-r1.5.

Most of that has nothing to do with patent problems, but are probably dependent packages to mplayer or the mpeg plugins.

I remember now. The rationale for not including most of these (unencumbered by patents and copyright) was that if it shipped with a media player that couldn't play MP3s then Joe Everyman would complain about a media player that couldn't even play MP3s even if it could play everything else under the sun. If they were required to download a package in order to play anything this would (in theory) make them more aware of why it couldn't be shipped and that it's really no big deal to manually install an update.

As far as what uses it, I'm pretty sure there's nothing really. Anything that uses gstreamer I guess, but I think that's only mplayer (which also comes packaged in the codec pack). gnash was the flash plugin we used to rely on but that's not a problem anymore.

 

[comradekingu]

Mp3 stopped being relevant in 2005, as flac gained enough market, and it has continued to annoy for historic purposes ever since. I think its time to stop being lazy about it and pull the plug. It isnt super useful to mainstream use, and it certainly should not be on the quicklist as a goto for important pandora use. Ill remove it from the quickstart guide and put it in user manual if its not replicated there already.

 

[levi]

I can download music I've bought from Amazon if I cared to, but only in MP3 format as far as I'm aware. It's still a very much mainstream codec.

As to whether it sounds better or worse than ogg at the same bitrates I couldn't say. I'd do a few tests, but because of the different ways the two encoders select the bitrate to use, I've never spent the time to get them the same. Some people swear by mp3s though and vice versa, and I'm pretty sure mp3's will sound better than oggs on your non-jailbroken iDevice.

Hmm, if it were on the repo, how would updates be handled by people's Pandoras?  If you kept the codec pack PND then the various stores and managers would update it as changes got rolled out, but you'd have to notice and re-run it to actually get the updates installed.  And if you did delete it after updating everything, you wouldn't automatically get any further updates, I think.  Not that that's any worse than the current situation, whereby if it gets updated you don't get any sort of notification from the Pandora, and as mentioned in the intro, should you want to find it to check it it should be much easier to find.

 

[comradekingu]

They are only library files, and the codec pack isnt updated that often. So if opkg comes and updates a file thats ok.

The current situation is opkg doesnt update libraries that arent installed. Alles gut.

Update the pxml and get it on the repo.

Here is some help

PND repository specification

PXML specification

PXML achetype

Libpnd hub

 

[Rockthesmurf]

I wonder how legally problematic it would be to include all the codecs with the Pandora, and on first boot having a GUI window that pops up asking the user whether they wish to have the codec pack installed, explaining what it is and what it does, if they click YES no further action required, if they click NO it deletes the files. I appreciate it is probably better not to ship the files and have a script to download them, but based on the amount of problems with Wifi, it feels a bit risky to expect an internet connection to be available (especially on first boot, as they'll need to set up their Wifi first, passwords etc.)

I guess the Pandora is niche enough that it doesn't matter, but it does feel a bit weird to be able to buy a device like the Pandora in this day and age and not be able to play 'standard' media files.

 

[comradekingu]

In this day and age, for a niche market, mp3 not out of the box isnt a deal-breaker. Having mp3 bundled might be.

 

[Surkow]

Licensing issues are real and will make it impossible to pre-install any codecs on the Pandora by default that have to be licensed from MPEG-LA without paying massive licensing fees. You can include support for open formats like Ogg Vorbis, FLAC, OPUS, Ogg Theora and VP8/VP9 (WebM).

 

[WizardStan]

but based on the amount of problems with Wifi

The problems with wifi are not that severe. There's only a small number of people for whom the wifi doesn't work at all, the rest of the problems are simply slow connection and if it takes 2 minutes to download the MP3 support then it takes 2 minutes, it's not that big of a deal.I suspect that most people actually have no problems with wifi. Remember, people only complain when there's a problem. Out of 4000 shipped units, there's been a few dozen complaints, estimated multiply by 10 for the people who aren't saying anything at all, and we're still looking at about 10% problem: a huge number to be sure, way higher than it should be, but not exactly deal breaking.

It's possible to attach a run-once script to the wifi: first time they connect to a network it pops up a dialog that asks if they'd like to download and install the codec pack now and explain all the licensing stuff needed to comply with.