Politics of Gnome and Perceptions of rudeness (Random things from Daveshah's thread)


Phlyra

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don't xwayland work around most of it? such as running legacy apps inside wayland. afaik it just fakes an xserver for the app to draw to like it would any windows then wayland displays that.

I've only used gnome under wayland with good results so far, with gnomes mutter compositor.
(but gnome is going full sjw with their code of conduct, so I'm moving away from that stuff as soon as I can)
What’s wrong with gnome going sjw? I love how people bandy that acronym around as if it’s an insult to people who are sjw; if they’re sjw they’re more than likely proud to be as it is something of which to be proud - though they won’t be proud of *having to be* sjw
 

λ the β-Redex Reducer Jr.

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A side benefit of adding a code of conduct to your open source project is it eliminates the waste of time supporting users with views like yours.
But it also removes any support that users and developers with such views would provide, so it could backfire.

…Whatever those views are. The term "SJW" is too vague for me to know that.
 

Phlyra

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The wider term "SJW" is just a meme. If it's a reason to do or not do something simply because of the label, that sounds pretty pointless.
AFAIU, “SJW” was created as a pejorative term by those opposed to society being socially just (or at the very least, those opposed to what are now understood to be progressive attitudes) but the egg is doubly on their face as people who are deemed to be “SJW” take on this “insult” as a badge of honour. However, that doesn’t mean that they necessarily only carry out “SJW” actions because they want to be known as a “SJW”; they carry them out because it’s what is right and it’s what society needs. I don’t believe that (the overwhelming majority at any rate) of “SJW” carry out these actions for the purpose of seeking recognition as such. Whether or not they get labelled as “SJW” (mainly by regressives) is simply a by-product - mainly of regressives’ ignorance/arrogance/insert-other-failing-here...
 

Phlyra

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But it also removes any support that users and developers with such views would provide, so it could backfire.

…Whatever those views are. The term "SJW" is too vague for me to know that.
Aha! Now we get to the (in)tolerance of the intolerant conundrum. Personally, I do actually prefer that all voices - and the nature of the vested interests behind them - (no matter how obscene) be heard in open debate so that they can all be challenged; otherwise unchallenged bubbles form and people who follow them like cults are less likely to at least question their virtues (or potentially lack thereof). For me that’s fundamentally democratic.
If a society isn’t constantly challenged to question its ideas, how is it supposed to genuinely refine itself?
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Slacktivism at its best.
Got to start somewhere. I’ve derailed this thread enough but before I finish I’d just like to ask: to parallel with a code of conduct, I’m curious whether you disagree with a society having laws against carrying out threats, theft, murder etc.? In other words, why does something being online (which is now an intrinsic part of society) mean that our behaviour should be any less acceptable here than in the “offline” world?
 
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Letalis Sonus

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AFAIU, “SJW” was created as a pejorative term by those opposed to society being socially just
AFAIK the term already existed before it became pejorative. The problem was that it was initially used within a pretty... intense echo chamber. You know, the "literal sociopath films themselves screaming angrily at other person for no apparent reason" type of activists. The whole "angry mob destroys innocent person's entire life because they were too lazy to check the facts first" thing that happened under the excuse of SJ on multiple occasions wasn't a good kind of PR for the SJW term, either.
 
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GizmoTheGreen

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People who are against inclusive codes of conducts
code of conducts main function, rather than being "inclusive", seeks to filter away from merit (quality of code), and giving skincolor and gender more value than actual code. and thats why I feel it has no place in serious projects.

but you do you.

(for anyone else curious what this is about: )
(I did not aimt to thumbnail that, forum did that by itself.)
 

logen

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I've always thought of "SJW" as a derogatory term against people who do harm to others in the name of "social" justice. Personally, I've found much of the stuff going around these days to be anti-individualism rather than pro-diversity. Like, exclude everyone, rather than include everyone. Reminds me of flash mobs and witch trials. Any dissenting opinion is crushed. I agree with @Phlyra let's discuss our opinions instead of attacking each other.
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A side benefit of adding a code of conduct to your open source project is it eliminates the waste of time supporting users with views like yours.
This is a perfect example of what I was just writing about. Someone attacking someone for putting out an opinion. I prefer to assume that @daveshah didn't mean it like that, but it is what it is.
 

logen

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theredbaron

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I dunno about #9. I always heard, "if it's yellow let it mellow"...

But yes. Do good unto others, and do good unto yourself.
That's for people on septic in general, as well as only when the only people likely to see said yellow is family.

Growing on on septic, yeah, beat into me. School was on city, and not family, so flush: ).

Sent from my H3123 using Tapatalk
 

pmprog

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for anyone else curious what this is about
The only thing I'm going to comment on here is the title of that video (I haven't actually watched it) - I disagree with "cancelling" of anybody.
Don't like the people who make Gnome, then don't use Gnome, but in the same breath, somebody using Gnome doesn't mean they agree with the politics of people working on/for Gnome (they might not even know, or even care). I'll pick a desktop based on function, not who wrote it.

It might also be ideal if the poltics part of this thread could be syphoned off into a seperate thread, so people can follow what really matters here... The progress of the 1st production Pyra
 

ClockworkCoder

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I love the community here. Everyone has something positive to contribute in some way, even those that come across as critical or scathing often want the Pyra to become better and more successful. Skin color, belief, ethics don't matter when we're sharing a common interest, and as far as I'm concerned it shouldn't. We have a similar passion, so I say let's leave it as things are. The Pyra will be better not because of the hardware alone, but also because of each and every member of its community.
 
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