Pandora 3d Chip Questions When Working?

[symgryph]

I was just wondering about the 3d chip on the pandora. From what I gather it will be a "BLOB" since it is a binary only driver.

How long before the chip will be utilized effectively? What kinds of games (specifically mame) will gain from its use?

What about 2d acceleration? How long for driver development, etc? Since people are doing this for 'free' I know this may be a hard question to answer.

What percentage of increase in speed will the 3d/2d acceleration help with?

Thomas andora1:

 

[JayFoxRox]

yeh - same question.

- I prepared myself and learned the shader language worked through the tutorials etc. I m ready and have some bloom and parallax mapping shaders etc ready =)
- I doubt many mame parts will be optimized for this.
- I'm sure nearly everything using complex graphics which have to be rotated make profit from this because you can keep your shaders minimal.
- The drivers are written by ImgTec themself but the hardware provider has to provide the drivers for the end-user. The kernel driver is open source but there seems to be another driver which is not. So far, there only seem to be beta drivers. TI announced the drivers for the end of 2008 (for beagleboard atleast).


PS: I did also receive my beagleboard today, but it has no drivers and I m clueless where to get them as no-one wants the responsibility for that. I wouldn't have ordered it if I would have known about this trouble before, I was kinda sure that the beagleboard would come with the drivers.
But thats another project... - However: If anyone knows how to get them, send me a pm

 

[mazza558]

Chip said earlier today that we're at the mercy of the chip maker as to when we get a driver.

 

[Svartalf]

I was just wondering about the 3d chip on the pandora. From what I gather it will be a "BLOB" since it is a binary only driver.

Yep.

QUOTE

How long before the chip will be utilized effectively?



Dunno. That's more in the hands of Imagination Technologies.

QUOTE

What kinds of games (specifically mame) will gain from its use?



Heh... Once you have ESMAME (ported from OGLMAME or similar...) you should have the same results.
Also commercial 3D titles will gain from it.
Once we have it, SDL can be re-worked to allow hardware scaling, blitting, etc...

QUOTE

What about 2d acceleration?



Heh... See my above remark about SDL...

QUOTE

What percentage of increase in speed will the 3d/2d acceleration help with?



What's the percentage of increase in speed from software to hardware rendering on a desktop?
(Quite a bit, if you think about it- but it varies from title to title... As an example, you can't do Q3:A in software very well at all (as in it goes to slide-show framerates...) but I believe it will provide a credible 30+ or so fps in that title once we have the full on support...)

 

[symgryph]

It looks like there is already a driver, or do I misread?

http://www.design-reuse.com/news/9172/imag...l-es-linux.html

 

[mali]

It's a different chip(a predecessor), look at the date, it's from 2004

 

[Fishbong]

I dont´t get it. So we have a driver (albeit not open source). But you're making it sound as if we had no 3D accelteraton until the chip maker releses an open source one.

So the binary is not compatible with the Pandora?

 

[Chip]

I dont´t get it. So we have a driver (albeit not open source). But you're making it sound as if we had no 3D accelteraton until the chip maker releses an open source one.
No, we don't even have the binary driver yet. At least, nobody who hasn't signed a NDA has one. The binary driver isn't finished yet, and they're not releasing it to the public until it is. Once it is released, then we will have hardware 3D acceleration.

 

[lardman]

QUOTE
No, we don't even have the binary driver yet. At least, nobody who hasn't signed a NDA has one. The binary driver isn't finished yet, and they're not releasing it to the public until it is. Once it is released, then we will have hardware 3D acceleration.


Slightly worrying, though Ti seem to be more OpenSource friendly with the OMAP3 than with the OMAP2 at least, so I trust there's more hope...

QUOTE
It looks like there is already a driver, or do I misread?


Yeah there is a driver, we just can't get our hands on it (yet, he says re-crossing fingers, which have been crossed for the past 2 years or so) for the Nokia N8x0 devices (OMAP2420).

QUOTE
I dont´t get it. So we have a driver (albeit not open source). But you're making it sound as if we had no 3D accelteraton until the chip maker releses an open source one.


I'm sure a driver exists, it's, I think, whether it's possible to release it and comply with the GPL (i.e. split it into proprietary blob + GPL kernel interface stub)

 

[mazza558]

I dont´t get it. So we have a driver (albeit not open source). But you're making it sound as if we had no 3D accelteraton until the chip maker releses an open source one.
No, we don't even have the binary driver yet. At least, nobody who hasn't signed a NDA has one. The binary driver isn't finished yet, and they're not releasing it to the public until it is. Once it is released, then we will have hardware 3D acceleration.

Wait, so that means the Pandora's 3D power will be unused for a long time?

That's a real shame. No 3D Linux games then.

 

[fusion_power]

I dont´t get it. So we have a driver (albeit not open source). But you're making it sound as if we had no 3D accelteraton until the chip maker releses an open source one.
No, we don't even have the binary driver yet. At least, nobody who hasn't signed a NDA has one. The binary driver isn't finished yet, and they're not releasing it to the public until it is. Once it is released, then we will have hardware 3D acceleration.

Wait, so that means the Pandora's 3D power will be unused for a long time?

That's a real shame. No 3D Linux games then.

Yupp, very bad. We are sooo late in Pandora-delay-development and there is still no 3D Driver? How long does the OMAP 3530 exists? A YEAR? And no drivers for funny SGX-3D orgies?
Can't they make a good driver in time or won't they make a good Driver in time?

It all sounds like we have to deal with a lame Software-only-mode Pandora for a long time... I actualy was under the impression that all the big Pandora-Delays give enough time for the Software-Development...but somehow the Software Dev. process seems to go very slow, especialy all the "optimizing" stuff...no wonder without any useful Hardware Drivers...

 

[mali]

In my opinion, that's the reason why maciek_urbansky should be supported best possible. His work could be "Plan B". I really hope, he has gotten a dev-board.

I remember someone from the core hinting, that some of them already got their hands on a preliminary driver, but I don't know the location of the exact quote, any more.
Scratch that. That particular post was Svartalf talking about ImgTech's NDA attitude.

 

[gibberish]

hummm

what guarantee is there that we'll ever see a driver?

 

[Chip]

what guarantee is there that we'll ever see a driver?
I would assume that when TI licensed the SGX core, the contract stipulated that Imgtec had to supply one. Remember, TI is selling the OMAP3530 based on certain specs, among them is OpenGL ES 2.0 support. That support only comes with the driver. Imgtec can drag their feet a bit, but they have to deliver eventually. It is not a matter of "if", but "when". And the "when" is not likely to be too far off.

 

[gibberish]

fair enough. i just hope we're not all sitting around with our pandora's not being able to play certain things because of the lack of driver... that would suck balls.

 

[fusion_power]

fair enough. i just hope we're not all sitting around with our pandora's not being able to play certain things because of the lack of driver... that would suck balls.

I imagine how it would be, if NVidia or ATI wouldn't have 3D Drivers over a Year after the Graphic Chipset-release :lol:
SGX is indeed a little bit slow, isn't it? Imagine, we would have our Pandoras since July or August... and we still have to deal with pure Software acceleration... :blink:

 

[ldesnogu]

In my opinion, that's the reason why maciek_urbansky should be supported best possible. His work could be "Plan B". I really hope, he has gotten a dev-board.

Just remember Maciek has clearly stated he would not work on OpenGL ES drivers. He "only" wants to describe hardware registers and instruction set. Getting a driver out of his work will be a major task.
QUOTE
I remember someone from the core hinting, that some of them already got their hands on a preliminary driver, but I don't know the location of the exact quote, any more.
Scratch that. That particular post was Svartalf talking about ImgTech's NDA attitude.

That may have been me. But I am not part of the core team though I tried

 

[craigix]

There is a driver, that is why there are 3D demos on youtube using the 3D hardware on OMAP3 devices. We just don't have one for the current kernel, it will rise to the top of the list once we are ready for it software wise.

ImgTech have asked for a Pandora board in the past so they are aware of the project.

 

[kevcal]

So 2d acceleration isn't accessible yet either ???

 

[lardman]

QUOTE
I would assume that when TI licensed the SGX core, the contract stipulated that Imgtec had to supply one. Remember, TI is selling the OMAP3530 based on certain specs, among them is OpenGL ES 2.0 support. That support only comes with the driver. Imgtec can drag their feet a bit, but they have to deliver eventually. It is not a matter of "if", but "when". And the "when" is not likely to be too far off.


Same holds true for the OMAP2, which one can also see on YouTube doing OpenGL 3D goodness. Doesn't mean we Linux users have a kernel driver mind you (though the Symbian users do, but that doesn't need to be GPL of course...).