Omg! Another Keyboard Topic! ;]

[Consequence_9]

So I know I'm not the only one out there who would like a backlit keyboard. I also know that there are many of us who are squeemish about tearing down their brand new pandora & soldering stuff willy nilly to it, but would probably still like a backlit keyboard. I've been thinking about designing a mod kit & getting some quotes on how much it would be, but I first wanted to gauge the demand for such a thing. If enough people want one for it to be cost-effective I'll see what I can do to get the ball rolling.

On that note there are a few hurdles-

First off, It doesn't seem to me that the original keypad would work very well with a backlight. I obviously can't comment on how much light the material lets through, but with the paint underneath the hardened tops It doesn't seem to me that enough would shine through the letters to be of any real use. I guess we'll just have to wait & see until they ship (or until the final keymats are produced & a dev is nice enough to hold an LED up to it ;]). If they work well, that's great, one less thing to do, but if they don't a keymat made from a less opaque material could probably be produced with little fuss... (although now that I think about it, may as well do that anyway to offer different styles.

I'm thinking about starting off with a very basic backlight: one color, on/off with lid & hopefully a key combo or something (physical switch as last resort), all function, nothing fancy. However, If a programmer is willing to team up there are many features I'd like to add hardware support for.

Features I would LIKE to include in a high end model (mostly dependant on software):
-Lighting for each individual button (I hate non-uniform backlights with some keys brighter than others, just looks so unprofessional)
-Brightness settings (could also be linked with lcd backlight via software)
-Control over lighting for individual buttons (adds possibility of hardware notifications, thumb-typing training, memory games, timing games, light on key-press, equalizer, etc.)
-Multi-color lights (so user isn't stuck with one color & can change based on mood/taste/whatever. Key color could reflect LCD activity. also opens up more cool possibilities [just check out those luxeed illuminated keyboards to see what I mean], but there is little point without software control)
-Anything else that you guys can come up with (within reason ;])

If at all possible I'd like to find a solderless solution, but I can't think of much atm, but at very least It'll be an easy-solder pad.

Lastly, I've got some questions for the devs (or whoever knows more about this than I do, lol):
Would it be possible to control different elements through software via an internal connection to the ext port?
If so, would any/what sort of hardware would be needed to allow it to be controlled?
Would USB be easier to code for or cheaper to produce?
Once final testing is done on the CNC case & is approved for production, will the necessary files for the case & keypad be released so accessory designers know what they're working with?

Any programmers out there capable of writing drivers/libs & a configuration utility & want in make yourself heard =]

 

[Svartalf]

Heh... The only drawbacks I can envision is actually providing the juice to power it.

A quarter watt bank of micro-LEDs would do the job if you did everything 'just right'. Presuming you do and you use a quarter watt's dissipation, you would add that to the power budget.

We were seeing ~10+ hours on a 13.5 watt-hour battery. Let's round that down for argument's sake.

This means you're pulling roughly 1.35 watts of power (It doesn't work QUITE that way, but this is just off the cuff, doing the numbers sort of thinking...) while you're doing a game, full-tilt. If you add a quarter watt, that's now 1.60 watts of power under continuous use. That equates into about 8.25 hours on the same battery.

These are rough WAGs off of the results from rev 1 board reports and the pre-production battery.

In no way am I telling you NOT to do this. I just want people to know up-front what they need to get driven down and what they're trading off for the backlight mod when they do it.

 

[Consequence_9]

Heh... The only drawbacks I can envision is actually providing the juice to power it.

A quarter watt bank of micro-LEDs would do the job if you did everything 'just right'. Presuming you do and you use a quarter watt's dissipation, you would add that to the power budget.

We were seeing ~10+ hours on a 13.5 watt-hour battery. Let's round that down for argument's sake.

This means you're pulling roughly 1.35 watts of power (It doesn't work QUITE that way, but this is just off the cuff, doing the numbers sort of thinking...) while you're doing a game, full-tilt. If you add a quarter watt, that's now 1.60 watts of power under continuous use. That equates into about 8.25 hours on the same battery.

These are rough WAGs off of the results from rev 1 board reports and the pre-production battery.

In no way am I telling you NOT to do this. I just want people to know up-front what they need to get driven down and what they're trading off for the backlight mod when they do it.

Makes sense, but I figure most people won't have it on constantly, so It shouldn't be that bad of a hit.

That being said, I'd take any other solution over a physical switch, so if anyone has any ideas that keep it as simple as possible, be my guest

 

[lulzfish]

It's not that I necessarily want my Pandora to be virgin, it's just that I don't think a backlit keyboard is really worth the trouble.

Here are some mods I'd be more likely to consider:

headlights

 

[WizardStan]

One of the board designs MWeston posted months ago had KB_BL pads on it. When pressed, it turned out this pad had been intended for a KeyBoard BackLight, tied to the... power... thingy. It's late, I'm annoyed, and words are failing me right now. I think it was implied that the power thingy would have made it possible with software to vary the amps out on that line, changing the brightness of the LEDs on it. I'd also suggested co-opting that line for a vibration feature. No backlit keyboard, however, as there's no room in the case for it, at least not in an economic fashion.
I'm not certain if those pads still exist in the current version of the board. I hope they are, so I can at least pretend that I'll get around to starting a project that uses them.

 

[thantik]

This should make back-lighting a Pandora easy enough aside from powering the LEDs

http://www.oznium.com/led-ribbon

I'm sure there would be a company out there that would make these ribbons for you to fit the keypad layout and probably develop it so the ribbon could just solder into the power supply somewhere.

and for the TRUELY HARDCORE:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Conductive...cuits-Using-An/

But I have a question - The keyboard/keypad that comes with it, will it allow light through?

 

[Consequence_9]

This should make back-lighting a Pandora easy enough aside from powering the LEDs

http://www.oznium.com/led-ribbon

I'm sure there would be a company out there that would make these ribbons for you to fit the keypad layout and probably develop it so the ribbon could just solder into the power supply somewhere.

and for the TRUELY HARDCORE:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Conductive...cuits-Using-An/

But I have a question - The keyboard/keypad that comes with it, will it allow light through?



What you posted Is pretty similar to what I had in mind. I've been kicking around a few different methods of doing it:

1) SMD LEDs on Flex PCB - Most likely the cheapest & easiest option, however there might not be enough room. Space permitting I would have it lay in-between the case & keypad.
2) EL sheet - would also be cheap to get an adhesive EL sheet cut to size, my only concern with this is power draw, although I'm not sure on specifics. Could be adhered directly to pandora's pcb (keypad permitting)
3) Fiber Optic Backlighting - can be made up to .33mm thin, usually illuminated with a single LED, obviously making power draw a moot point. Not sure as to how cost-effective it would be though.

Now if there is not enough space for any of those methods AND/OR the current keypad is too opaque a custom keypad could be made with one of the above methods in mind.

 

[mali]

I think the mat lets through no light at all. Rubber(grey, or maybe even black to save a step), black plastic/rubber, white printing, clear plastic.

Someone on the German board meant, that it could be possible to put an UV LED in the lid and let it shine on the keys.

 

[maciek_urbanski]

Maybe something that does not need taking apart Pandora during installation...

AFAIK Pandora will have keys printed with glow-in-the-dark paint. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean that UV LED pointed towards keys should make them glow ? If yes - simple clip with low-power UV LED and coin battery should work...

I admit this is 'el cheapo' way doing things, but I've used both: keyboards illuminated with LEDs and photo/electro-luminescent ones. In daylight LEDs are better, but they were too bright when there's less ambient light.
At the same time luminescent ones were softer on the eyes during the night and next to nil during daytime. For me luminescent were better.

If I'd do such lighting I'd use small MCU to dim small number of LEDs (PWM) and use some semi-translucent elastomeric material as a keymat. But this would be a overkill (production-wise) for DIY project.

Someone on the German board meant, that it could be possible to put an UV LED in the lid and let it shine on the keys.

Heh, you've beat me to it, Mali. B)

 

[RajTakhar]

I guess the DEVS could answer the question better - i.e will they sell at a later date a keyboard matt - which allows light to pass through it

===
http://gp2xwizandpandora.blogspot.com/

 

[Consequence_9]

I think the mat lets through no light at all. Rubber(grey, or maybe even black to save a step), black plastic/rubber, white printing, clear plastic.

Bummer =/ I was going on that picture that crag posted of a keypad 'like' the pandora's (the one with the vibration buttons)

Maybe something that does not need taking apart Pandora during installation...

Then it wouldn't be a backlight ;]

I've used both: keyboards illuminated with LEDs and photo/electro-luminescent ones. In daylight LEDs are better, but they were too bright when there's less ambient light.
At the same time luminescent ones were softer on the eyes during the night and next to nil during daytime. For me luminescent were better.

Ideally I'd like to use LEDs with adjustable brightness so that won't be an issue. I just hope that the KB BL pads are still on the board so it would be easily do-able.

If I'd do such lighting I'd use small MCU to dim small number of LEDs (PWM) and use some semi-translucent elastomeric material as a keymat. But this would be a overkill (production-wise) for DIY project.

That's why I want to see if enough people want one to make producing a batch worth it. It would be overkill for just a few people, but if a couple hundred people would like one then it would be worth it IMO to have a more professional solution.

For now I want to focus on designing it to be as cheap and energy-efficient as possible while still having a quality product.
Does anyone know what company they're having the official keypads made by? This would make things faster, easier & cheaper if we were to produce custom keymats (seeing as a lot of that preliminary stuff could be skipped & they already have the moulds & process available).

 

[thantik]

I thought that was the point of the pandora - Is that we would be able to OPEN it? I mean for all you guys who want a UV led shining OVER the keyboard - just go buy one of those USB flex-lights and install a UV led and plug it into the back of the pandora. Your issue is solved.
CODE
http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/5a84/?cpg=ab

There ya go - have fun.

But installing UV leds into the shell facing you is a bad idea from 1 standpoint. Ever try and look at UV leds for more than a couple seconds? Yeah, not only would that be very distracting, Id give it about 5 mins before your head exploded.

Id much rather have something that illuminated from underneath the keypad since it would be more subtle and easier on the eyes.

 

[Polossatik]

Just an idea, you can easily use a high frequency oscillator to drive the leds...
Assume 10 leds and let every one on for 10% then you're only using the power needed for one led (+ some extra for the drive chip/circuit) to have all light up...

 

[CCmachined]

it's a nice idea, but i personally want my warranty in tact, especially for such an expensive device. on laptops i've always angled the screen forward and turned up the brightness a fair amount to illuminate the screen :L.

 

[OrR]

I like the idea of individual multi-color LEDs for the buttons. If we had only a few more buttons, we could then almost emulate the Game King using the keyboard as the screen... However, the cost for something like this would probably be very high.
If it's only simple illumination, I can probably do it myself. Not entirely sure if I want to put in the effort.