Ode To 2d

[markiej]

Hi there,

I don't know exactly why I feel the need to share my feelings on the matter, but I think I've made up my mind - I enjoy 2d games more than 3d. It's official. Last night I fired up PicoDrive. I was flipping through my old rom list and found game after game of simple platforming action. I played a little chuck rock, ecco the dolphin, animaniacs, aero the acrobat & decap attack. The precision of the controls and the clarity of visuals made for an enjoyable experience across the board. Tha recent update to the emulator, which made the scrolling basically perfect only added to the goodness.

With all the 3d games out there, we tend to forget that there was once a time when no one ever mentioned camera angles and framerates, and collision detection and architecture. I appreciate the immersive environments of games like Oblivion etc. But nothing beats the smooth goodness of an oldschool genesis platformer. Not once did you have to adjust the camera so you could see just what the heck was going on.

done-mb

 

[dgame]

2D Era: When game play actually mattered.

Long live ≤ 32-bit gaming!

 

[Ravnos]

With all the 3d games out there, we tend to forget that there was once a time when no one ever mentioned camera angles and framerates, and collision detection and architecture.

That time never existed, sorry. Maybe during the early days of the 2600 and its competitors, but even as far back as the NES era there were tons of complaints about "slowdown", poor controls, odd collision detection, and shitty level design, among other complaints. There were a lot of great 2D games, to be sure, but you need a reality check on your nostalgia.

 

[quasist]

Yeah! Thats' why I abadoned FleshChasmer II development for Gp2x. First one was a very rough mix of 8bit content in 3D (far beyond the casual gp2x users).

 

[evol]

i thought this thread would have some vogon poetry in it

 

[DaveC]

Hi there,

I don't know exactly why I feel the need to share my feelings on the matter, but I think I've made up my mind - I enjoy 2d games more than 3d. It's official. Last night I fired up PicoDrive. I was flipping through my old rom list and found game after game of simple platforming action. I played a little chuck rock, ecco the dolphin, animaniacs, aero the acrobat & decap attack. The precision of the controls and the clarity of visuals made for an enjoyable experience across the board. Tha recent update to the emulator, which made the scrolling basically perfect only added to the goodness.

With all the 3d games out there, we tend to forget that there was once a time when no one ever mentioned camera angles and framerates, and collision detection and architecture. I appreciate the immersive environments of games like Oblivion etc. But nothing beats the smooth goodness of an oldschool genesis platformer. Not once did you have to adjust the camera so you could see just what the heck was going on.

done-mb

Let's just hope the "Craiganator" has good 2D controls and a decent d-pad for SNES, MD, and MAME etc. As of now it seems very 3D oriented with all of the analog sticks and such. Since analog is crap for 2D let's hope the pad is decent.

I think 2D is better on a handheld. 3D is just not too immersive on a small screen. On the other hand those old 2D games which look nice and sharp on a handheld look like crap blown up on a PC monitor. 3D looks nicer and is more immersive on a large PC monitor though. To me: 2D good on handhelds, 3D good on PC monitors/HDTVs.

 

[kevcal]

To me: 2D good on handhelds, 3D good on PC monitors/HDTVs.

I'd mostly agree with you on this one, although I think some 3d games work on handhelds - mostly ones you can have a quick go on - like racing games and possibly a few others. I wouldn't play first/third person shooters on a handheld or anything with joysticks as I feel a mouse is still the best control method I've used for these).
Unfortunately nothing will really bring back the original excitement of even the 2d games though; mainly I think because we're all that much older than we were when (eg) frequenting smoky arcades in the early 80s. But it's nice to reminisce using the 2x.

 

[markiej]

QUOTE
That time never existed, sorry. Maybe during the early days of the 2600 and its competitors, but even as far back as the NES era there were tons of complaints about "slowdown", poor controls, odd collision detection, and shitty level design, among other complaints. There were a lot of great 2D games, to be sure, but you need a reality check on your nostalgia.



I stand by my comments. Note that there is often hyperbole on the internet, and I'm aware that there were poorly designed games back then too. I just like prefer the crisp simplicity of 2d, when it comes to action and platformers, and shmups.

Example, I really like Banjo Kazooie. But I often get annoyed because I can't find the exit, or all of a sudden the camera is like a a mile away and I'm going sideways.

1st person shooters (and their over-the-shoulder cousins), & racing games are better with the polygons.

I think ploygons can ennhance a platformer, but only to juice the visuals and smooth out the animation (like that DS mario game) and not to intro a floating swooping camera.

It's not just nostaligia, I really enjoy Wonderboy in Monster-world more than "Titan Quest", which is fairly awesome but has dodgy frame rate on my high end pc & "where am I supposed to go next" 3d issue.

 

[dosteridge]

With all the 3d games out there, we tend to forget that there was once a time when no one ever mentioned camera angles and framerates, and collision detection and architecture. I appreciate the immersive environments of games like Oblivion etc. But nothing beats the smooth goodness of an oldschool genesis platformer. Not once did you have to adjust the camera so you could see just what the heck was going on.

Well Said

 

[TyBO!]

I think 2D is better on a handheld. 3D is just not too immersive on a small screen. On the other hand those old 2D games which look nice and sharp on a handheld look like crap blown up on a PC monitor. 3D looks nicer and is more immersive on a large PC monitor though. To me: 2D good on handhelds, 3D good on PC monitors/HDTVs.

I don't think all 3D games are any less immersive on a handheld. I've played PS1 games on my friends modded PSP -- everything from Tony Hawk to Final Fantasy -- and it's just as enjoyable. I can understand if eyestrain would be a concern, but those little 2D sprites aren't much bigger are they?

That's not to say I'm more in favor of 3D games. 2D is my true favorite. It's a shame 2D games are a dying breed now.

 

[Alex.]

It's a shame 2D games are a dying breed now.

How true that is. Only cellphones, handhelds, and web games get true-2D titles (with some minor exceptions), and it seems to me like 2D is seen by the 'market' as a scaled-back version of something that should have been 3D, were the price and target hardware properly fit for it.

Why can't the two share the market in a more balanced manner? I support 3D racing games and first person shooters because they simply are more fun and look amazing, but why does that leave no place for 2D platformers, space shooters, and strategy games?

Maybe because people would start questioning why they need a $400 console or a graphics card of similar pricing in order to play a game like Cave Story or StarCraft, without any poly-mapped accelerated bullshit

(note that I am not against the existence of 3D platformers, space shooters, or strategy game, but rather against the lack of their 2D counterparts, which can be equally fun in this case)

 

[nubie]

I think 2D is better on a handheld. 3D is just not too immersive on a small screen. On the other hand those old 2D games which look nice and sharp on a handheld look like crap blown up on a PC monitor. 3D looks nicer and is more immersive on a large PC monitor though. To me: 2D good on handhelds, 3D good on PC monitors/HDTVs.

Hmm, OK, then I direct your attention to http://www.chroniclogic.com/ makers of such amazing "2D"games as Gish and Triptych.

I venture to say that these amazing titles are fine in "flat 3D" on a PC, and they only control in 2 dimensions.

Don't forget to check out Wik and the fable of lost souls.

I think 2D is better on a handheld. 3D is just not too immersive on a small screen. On the other hand those old 2D games which look nice and sharp on a handheld look like crap blown up on a PC monitor. 3D looks nicer and is more immersive on a large PC monitor though. To me: 2D good on handhelds, 3D good on PC monitors/HDTVs.

I don't think all 3D games are any less immersive on a handheld. I've played PS1 games on my friends modded PSP -- everything from Tony Hawk to Final Fantasy -- and it's just as enjoyable. I can understand if eyestrain would be a concern, but those little 2D sprites aren't much bigger are they?

That's not to say I'm more in favor of 3D games. 2D is my true favorite. It's a shame 2D games are a dying breed now.


Try the games here: http://www.chroniclogic.com/ they will restore your faith in hi-res 2D goodness, they are super addictive.

If you can convince a friend to play Gish "Wrestling" you will be hooked big-time, my buddy and I played a long time on that game.

If the new console has the power to do 2D gaming of this caliber, then more power to it. The best 2D console of all time is the Drieamcast, for its pure power, all of this 2D vs. 3D hate has to end, don't hate the games, hate the cookie-cutter companies and the lousy market that will buy their Shit (Cough*EA*Cough).

OpenGL doesn't mean the end of 2D titles, but the beginning, if Gish (or a clone - Hint hint, bored devs) has the horsepower to take off then just let it. If it could be networked or multiplayer then so be it, long live gaming.