nVIDIA SHIELD™ ANDROID TV console - OUT NOW!

[Jumpman]

The Shield TV costs $199 as a base. You and I have a radically different definition of "cheap".

For the latest electronic "gadgets", $200 is the bottom of the barrel.

A 3DS and Vita which are 3-5 year old tech cost $200 still, and compared to any new ios or Android smart phone, $200 doesn't get your foot in most doors, and if it did, I can promise you the device won't be running a Sega Saturn EMU full speed. So yeah, $200 is way cheap. 

Obviously the views around here for "cheap" and "unexpected" vary GREATLY

Chris

 

[WizardStan]

For the latest electronic "gadgets", $200 is the bottom of the barrel

Agreed, the "latest" gadgets start at $200.Cheap starts at $50. You can get Android set-top boxes that can playback 1080p h264 for under $100. $200 is not "cheap", $200 is latest and greatest tech.

If you consider $200 cheap then I've got a world of gadgets I can show you which would blow your mind.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Please show me some and blow my mind  

 

[WizardStan]

K

 

[ekianjo]

For the latest electronic "gadgets", $200 is the bottom of the barrel.

The raspberry pi 2 is 35 dollars mate. And I find it more amazing than the Shield in terms of performance/price. 

A 3DS and Vita which are 3-5 year old tech cost $200 still,

That's not the price of the tech you pay here, that's the ROI of Sony and Nintendo that you are paying for. Don't assume these piece of hardware cost that much - their production cost now is close to rock-bottom. 

compared to any new ios or Android smart phon

There are Android phones as cheap at 30 dollars (in China) and as expensive as 800-900. So putting "latest Android" in a single category is very misleading.

iOS, on the other hand, is expensive anyway (but has decent hardware too): it's priced at a premium though so you should not regard it as being something representative of the actual tech cost.  

You can get Android set-top boxes that can playback 1080p h264 for under $100

Even the raspberry pi first gen could do that, too. At much less than 100 USD  

 

[Jumpman]

I still haven't seen the example of $200 "cheap" device that can run a Sega Saturn emulator full speed, which was my point to begin with. The Shield TV is "unique" for this reason alone. Yes, it has HUGE horsepower, but it can do way more than any other device priced in the same category. There are devices that cost double, or maybe even 3x as much, and still can't do what it does. So for me personally, I think it is very much a cheap & unique device which was the point being argued to begin with.

Chris

 

[WizardStan]

I still haven't seen the example of $200 "cheap" device that can run a Sega Saturn emulator full speed

EXACTLY!Cheap devices cannot, that is entirely the point. You called the nVidia Shield TV a cheap device, and said that because it was a cheap device it is unexpected for it to be able to handle Saturn emulation. I set out to demonstrate set top boxes which you can buy right now which are all brand new which can handle all the same playback stuff an Android gaming console can (even if that's where it stops) for significantly less than what the Shield costs. The nVidia Shield is not a cheap device. Starting at $200 it is in fact within the high end range of devices.

Cheap devices start at $50, some are even cheaper. If one of those were able to run Saturn emulation then that would be amazing. The nVidia Shield TV console, with its fairly high specs and price tag to match, it's not amazing, it is expected.

 

[Jumpman]

I still haven't seen the example of $200 "cheap" device that can run a Sega Saturn emulator full speed

EXACTLY!

Cheap devices cannot, that is entirely the point. You called the nVidia Shield TV a cheap device, and said that because it was a cheap device it is unexpected for it to be able to handle Saturn emulation. I set out to demonstrate set top boxes which you can buy right now which are all brand new which can handle all the same playback stuff an Android gaming console can (even if that's where it stops) for significantly less than what the Shield costs. The nVidia Shield is not a cheap device. Starting at $200 it is in fact within the high end range of devices.


Cheap devices start at $50, some are even cheaper. If one of those were able to run Saturn emulation then that would be amazing. The nVidia Shield TV console, with its fairly high specs and price tag to match, it's not amazing, it is expected.

Your comparing apples to oranges here. ekainjo stated how no one should be surprised that such a powerful device can run a Sega Saturn emulator full speed, and I said why shouldn't someone be surprised. You have shown tons of cheap crap devices that do whatever things I NEVER once discussed. This is about a $200 device doing what no other $200 dollar device can do. Why wouldn't someone be surprised by that?

What other devices do you know that can run Yabause full speed? I'm sorry you don't find 200 to be cheap along side $400-800 devices that may or may not be able to do what a $200 device can. I never once discussed anything else about this device, or any other Android features, just full speed Saturn emulation, and I have yet to see anyone show another $200 device that can do the same.

And considering a cheap TV set box can do it

It's not about how cheap it is, it's about how powerful it is. That's why it's not unexpected.

It's amazing in the same way that a Ferrari can outperform a VW Bug.

The Ferrari argument proves my point, of course a $200,000 car outperforms a $30,000 one. Here, we have the $200 Shield TV out performing devices that cost double, or 3x times as much, why is that not surprising? So here, the VW Bug is out performing the Ferrari in regards to pricing.

Chris 

 

[Nintendo]

Let's move on please.

 

[SNESFAN]

how about just "cheap for what it is capable of doing" 

simply "cheap" is subjective to the reader when not putting that qualifier on it.

cause if I think hard about it, I can think of things that cost more than $200 that aren't capable of the things this does. And the things that can do what this does cost way more.

[/derail]

 

[Jumpman]

how about just "cheap for what it is capable of doing" 

simply "cheap" is subjective to the reader when not putting that qualifier on it.

cause if I think hard about it, I can think of things that cost more than $200 that aren't capable of the things this does. And the things that can do what this does cost way more.

[/derail]

Exactly my point^

That's why I found it "surprising", I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts.

Chris

 

[vcoleiro1]

Let's move on please.

Did you get your Shield TV yet?

 

[Nintendo]

Yes, ages ago.

 

[Jumpman]

Yes, ages ago.

How is it? Would you recommend it to friends and family? :lol:

Chris

 

[WizardStan]

Your comparing apples to oranges here. ekainjo stated how no one should be surprised that such a powerful device can run a Sega Saturn emulator full speed, and I said why shouldn't someone be surprised.

No, don't change history, you said

And considering a cheap TV set box can do it, makes it even more spectacular

You called the nVidia Shield TV a cheap set top box. I pointed out that it wasn't cheap. I linked to several devices that are cheap that (probably) can't run Saturn emulation. I pointed out the difference between a weak and cheap device vs a more expensive and obviously powerful device.
Once again, the nVidia Shield is a very powerful device and this is reflected in the price. It is not cheap, it is priced according to its very high specs. Because it is known to be so powerful, because it does cost so much, considering how well the Pandora, technology 7 years old, is able to handle Saturn emulation (such as it does) it is completely expected that the Shield, a very modern system, is able to run it at full speed. It would be entirely unexpected, a sign of major problems, if it couldn't.

This does not mean it isn't impressive, it just means that you shouldn't be surprised. Now, if someone gets Saturn emulation running full speed on one of the current sub $50 devices, that would be unexpected.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

K

That Pippo X8 looks nice

 

[SNESFAN]

Your comparing apples to oranges here. ekainjo stated how no one should be surprised that such a powerful device can run a Sega Saturn emulator full speed, and I said why shouldn't someone be surprised.

No, don't change history, you said

And considering a cheap TV set box can do it, makes it even more spectacular

You called the nVidia Shield TV a cheap set top box. I pointed out that it wasn't cheap. I linked to several devices that are cheap that (probably) can't run Saturn emulation. I pointed out the difference between a weak and cheap device vs a more expensive and obviously powerful device.

Once again, the nVidia Shield is a very powerful device and this is reflected in the price. It is not cheap, it is priced according to its very high specs. Because it is known to be so powerful, because it does cost so much, considering how well the Pandora, technology 7 years old, is able to handle Saturn emulation (such as it does) it is completely expected that the Shield, a very modern system, is able to run it at full speed. It would be entirely unexpected, a sign of major problems, if it couldn't.


This does not mean it isn't impressive, it just means that you shouldn't be surprised. Now, if someone gets Saturn emulation running full speed on one of the current sub $50 devices, that would be unexpected.

I feel he brought up, and reiterated a valid point on his justification on calling it cheap. One you seem to be avoiding.

Do you feel the relative price/power ratio of the shield TV as expensive and a $50 setup box as cheap? Or is it the final total as expensive and it's a $200>$50 thing?

Since you brought it up, do you feel that the pandora going for $351.10 is also expensive? I personally feel it's a fair price, but that's because of it's overall utility. But comparative to things that do similar things just not nearly as well it's outrageously expensive by today's standard. A single core 1ghz cortex a8 device and 512mb internal storage for 4x the price of potentially better spec'd devices.

The same reason you can't really compare an android game handheld to the pandora, and why the pandora price is justified, is a similar reason to why you can't compare a $50 android set-top with the shield tv. They aren't even comparisons. What makes something expensive? To me, it's being able to get something else comparable at a lesser price.

 

[Jumpman]

Your comparing apples to oranges here. ekainjo stated how no one should be surprised that such a powerful device can run a Sega Saturn emulator full speed, and I said why shouldn't someone be surprised.

No, don't change history, you said

And considering a cheap TV set box can do it, makes it even more spectacular

You called the nVidia Shield TV a cheap set top box. I pointed out that it wasn't cheap. I linked to several devices that are cheap that (probably) can't run Saturn emulation. I pointed out the difference between a weak and cheap device vs a more expensive and obviously powerful device.

Once again, the nVidia Shield is a very powerful device and this is reflected in the price. It is not cheap, it is priced according to its very high specs. Because it is known to be so powerful, because it does cost so much, considering how well the Pandora, technology 7 years old, is able to handle Saturn emulation (such as it does) it is completely expected that the Shield, a very modern system, is able to run it at full speed. It would be entirely unexpected, a sign of major problems, if it couldn't.


This does not mean it isn't impressive, it just means that you shouldn't be surprised. Now, if someone gets Saturn emulation running full speed on one of the current sub $50 devices, that would be unexpected.

I did call it a cheap set top box, and I was surprised that it can run full speed Saturn Emulation. I never said anything else about the set top features, only that it ran Saturn at full speed and that should be considered surprising to some(myself included). If this is the only set top box at $200 that can do what I stated, why can't I be surprised by that? 

Your argument for being cheap is weak at best. Yes, you showed tons of cheap devices that can't do what the Shield can, but you showed no cheap ones that can do what it does. And how much more expensive or the ones that can? $300, 400, 1000? 

This is a CHEAP SET TOP BOX that runs Saturn Emulation at full speed, and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. What's the nearest tablet, phone or set top box that can do what the Shield TV does? How much do they cost? Once you show me those devices, then you could say this item is not cheap, but as it stands, I'm not seeing it.

Chris

 

[Jumpman]

They aren't even comparisons. What makes something expensive? To me, it's being able to get something else comparable at a lesser price.

Thank You, a voice of reason and logical thought^

Chris

 

[WizardStan]

Ok, let me try again. I still stand by everything I've said but I don't think I'm being understood.

1) The Pandora is able to handle Saturn emulation at about 50%. The Tegra X1 is several generations improved on the DM3730. The CPU alone is more than twice as capable in single threaded applications, and it's got 8 cores to balance across, with better pipeline and more cache, and the GPU packing an even more massive punch. If there were absolutely nothing done to improve Yabause in any way I'd still be surprised if the nVidia Shield TV weren't capable of running it at full speed. It is entirely expected that the Tegra X1 be capable of Saturn emulation and would be unexpected if there were anything in the way. In fact I would even say that: if Saturn emulation weren't possible then it could only be because something was (intentionally or accidentally) getting in the way.

2) I reiterate: you and I have radically different definitions of cheap. I look at two set top boxes, one costing $50 and the other $200, and say "this $50 one is cheap. It is cheap for a reason, it is not very powerful. This $200 one is expensive. It is expensive for a reason, it is very capable", same as I would look at a meal or a car or anything else: in their respective classification, one is cheap and the other expensive, but there are usually reasons for such price differences: I can go to McDonalds and get something cheap off the dollar menu, or go to a fancy restaurant and get something expensive hand made and much more delicious.

You, on the other hand, seem to have deeper classifications: one set top box is incapable of Saturn emulation and costs $50, the other is capable of Saturn emulation and costs $200. Of these two classifications, "capable of Saturn emulation" and "not capable of Saturn emulation", you would consider both the $50 and the $200 cheap in their respective fields, fields that have no overlap.

But to me, they're a single classification: Android TV consoles. I may even be pressed to just generic "TV console" and lump the likes of the Roku in there. So when I say "cheap starts at $50" it's for the whole package.