News for Linux on GOG

[_jr_]

http://www.gog.com/news/gogcom_now_supports_linux

 

[ekianjo]

wow, flatout running on Linux. Sweet!! 

 

[thatgui]

Great, especially as they are offering tarballs too, so no need to install it anymore to get the games data files

 

[WizardStan]

Well done. Unfortunately I don't own a single one of those games (yet) to check it out. I'm curious about the older games, especially Hocus Pocus. Did they just use DosBox or does it actually have a Linux version, I wonder.

 

[thatgui]

At least for Pirates and Civilzation dosbox is used, I guess they use it for Hocus Pocus too. Have to check on Gemini Rue at home (too big to check now), interesting to see how they handle newer titles (wine?).

Edit: they are also using dosbox for DukeNukem 3D

 

[mcobit]

Well done. Unfortunately I don't own a single one of those games (yet) to check it out. I'm curious about the older games, especially Hocus Pocus. Did they just use DosBox or does it actually have a Linux version, I wonder.

For the Pandora you can buy Hocus Pocus as PND full version on the repo.
Also there is an option to export the datafiles from the pnd for use with other emulators.


I would guess that those just use a packaged dosbox.

 

[WizardStan]

they are also using dosbox for DukeNukem 3D

Oooo, failure. There are open source players that probably would have been more appropriate.

For the Pandora you can buy Hocus Pocus as PND full version on the repo.

Also there is an option to export the datafiles from the pnd for use with other emulators.

I would guess that those just use a packaged dosbox.

They do, but they seem to be making a big deal about it being "first time on linux". Assuming they just use DosBox, that's not even remotely true since the Pandora already did it, and people have been playing old dos games on Linux (Hocus Pocus included) for a long time.

 

[ekianjo]

Oooo, failure. There are open source players that probably would have been more appropriate.

Open source players are NOT the original game. I don't think that's a failure to want to run the game exactly as it was.

ssuming they just use DosBox, that's not even remotely true since the Pandora already did it, and people have been playing old dos games on Linux (Hocus Pocus included) for a long time.

First time it's sold for Ubuntu and Mint officially as a deb. That's probably what they mean. Pandora does not fall into that bucket anyway.

 

[rygD]

they are also using dosbox for DukeNukem 3D

Oooo, failure. There are open source players that probably would have been more appropriate.

I was thinking the same thing.  I wonder if this decision was because they are treating most of the old stuff the same.  Maybe simplifies something on their end.

Has anyone tried DEFCON.  I read about it at some point and thought it might be fun, but it isn't the type of games I play often. 

 

[ekianjo]

same thing.

See above, the players are not the original game. Just like Zdoom is not Doom.

 

[WizardStan]

Open source players are NOT the original game. I don't think that's a failure to want to run the game exactly as it was.

We can disagree on this, I don't feel that "original" should necessarily trump ease and efficiency, especially if there's no perceivable difference to the user. It's not like you need to bling out the player to unrecognizable, eduke3d is basically just a direct port of the original and without turning on any additional features will give you the exact same experience with everything intact.But if you genuinely feel that "original" is the best way to go I have to ask your opinion on using ScummVM. Wouldn't that basically be the same thing, a modern player for old content? To be consistently faithful to the original shouldn't they also use DosBox in those cases? I'm certain there must be other examples of them using modern players for older games though I can't think of any right now.

 

[ekianjo]

Wouldn't that basically be the same thing, a modern player for old content?

ScummVM has bugs in numerous games, you can see the support page and see that many of the ones which are considered well supported are 99% supported. If I buy a game, I want it to work perfectly, not 90% only.

Nothing prevents you from taking the data files and running eduke3d or SCUMMVM, by the way. I don't see what is wrong by providing the pure, unaltered original files and engines. That's the way you played the game when you had them 20 years back. 

 

[rygD]

same thing.

See above, the players are not the original game. Just like Zdoom is not Doom.

I agree.  I may have made a different choice personally if it were me making the call.  That is all I meant.  If I wanted the authentic experience I wouldn't play it on Linux.  I do this for many games, which is why I have as many old consoles and computers as I do.

 

[WizardStan]

ScummVM has bugs in numerous games, you can see the support page and see that many of the ones which are considered well supported are 99% supported. If I buy a game, I want it to work perfectly, not 90% only

My point is that GoG is using ScummVM for some of their games. So you believe that it is a mistake that they are then, and that they should be using DosBox for everything?Before this gets out of hand again, I am asking out of genuine curiosity, I like to know how other people think about stuff. I'm not asking in some sneaky attempt to make you feel stupid or whatever.

I don't see what is wrong by providing the pure, unaltered original files and engines.

From a consumer point of view it's an unnecessary abstraction layer. If done properly, the end user won't notice any difference, yet emulation is always more CPU intensive and generally more prone to bugs than a proper port. If eduke32 can give the exact same experience as the original in an updated environment then it should be used.DosBox is not perfect either, especially in sound emulation I've found little glitches: unless you are running the game natively on old hardware there are going to be differences, it's just a question of how much you notice or value those differences.

Nothing prevents you from taking the data files and running eduke3d or SCUMMVM, by the way.

Or conversely, they can provide all the same files, just running with eduke32, and nothing prevents you from taking those same data files and running it in DosBox, or digging your old pentium out of storage for the truly authentic retro experience.

 

[ekianjo]

GoG is using ScummVM for some of their games

Is that really the case? I wasnt aware of that. Which games use it ?

 

[ekianjo]

yet emulation is always more CPU intensive and generally more prone to bugs than a proper port.

I don't agree. Emulation of DosBox is very effective for all games from the Dos Era because if it even runs full speed on a Pandora... you get the picture.

There's nothing saying that an open source engine is more cycle-efficient. For all you know it could be very badly written even if it's open source.

For Eduke and other engines there are no ports. They are recreations of the original engine. It's not obvious that they replicate exactly the same behavior as the original games. So I'd certainly prefer a proper version faithful to the original.

just running with eduke32, and nothing prevents you from taking those same data files and running it in DosBox,

Coming back to what I said, Eduke32 is NOT the official engine of Duke Nukem 3D. It may be very good, but who can say it is a perfect recreation of the original game without proper testing and comparison ?

 

[WizardStan]

Is that really the case? I wasnt aware of that. Which games use it ?

Lure of the Temptress, Beneath a Steel Sky, Simon the Sorcer, Gobliiins, just to name a few in my account. The list is actually pretty extensive. I'm not sure if any of the Sierra games are using it or not, I'll have a look when I get home tonight.

I don't agree. Emulation of DosBox is very effective for all games from the Dos Era because if it even runs full speed on a Pandora... you get the picture.

I'm not talking about the speed in that case, I'm talking about glitches in sound and graphics. Especially sound, the FM chip emulator is pretty good but far from perfect.

There's nothing saying that an open source engine is more cycle-efficient. For all you know it could be very badly written even if it's open source.

That is true, the possibility exists for it to be a very poorly written implementation. It's very easy to figure that out though and it isn't true in this case.

Coming back to what I said, Eduke32 is NOT the official engine of Duke Nukem 3D

The source code of Duke Nukem 3D was released several years ago. The DOS specific bits were rewritten to be cross platform and that became eduke32. It isn't a recreation, it is literally the original code with a few updates so it runs on modern systems. It is a port. Actually, as far as I'm aware, all Duke Nukem 3D implementations are ports of the exact same original source.At this point in time it also has a lot of additional features but it's still all based on the original code and you can get the same authentic experience without all the extras if you want.

 

[ekianjo]

ure of the Temptress, Beneath a Steel Sky, Simon the Sorcer, Gobliiins, just to name a few in my account. The list is actually pretty extensive.

Did they replace the ScummVM interface or hide it or something ? what is their implementation like ?

DO they mention it in the store page?

Especially sound, the FM chip emulator is pretty good but far from perfect.

In which games do you see issues with Dosbox ? I've been playing a lot of games with DosBox and I can't remember hearing anything strange.

 

[HamishTPB]

Has anyone tried DEFCON.  I read about it at some point and thought it might be fun, but it isn't the type of games I play often. 

I play defcon already (steam iirc) and it is ok, better with human opponents IMO but still a fun game if you pick it up cheap enough.

 

[ekianjo]

It isn't a recreation, it is literally the original code with a few updates so it runs on modern systems.

You are right for Eduke32, but ScummVM is not a port for example, it's a recreation of the original Scumm engine (which was never released as far as I know).

As for Eduke32, it's more than just a few updates, they added many things in the code:

http://www.moddb.com/engines/eduke32

The problem I have with Eduke32 is that you add new renderers (OpenGL) new visual effects, allow for higher textures supports, etc... in the end are you still playing the same game or an enhanced, rebooted version of it ?