My Soul Died A Little Today.

[EvilDragon]

Well, I wouldn't say quality control is that low.
Except for the first units, that is.

Failing LCD cables was a problem for the first 200 units, yes. Since we know about it, we found a fix and I didn't get a single unit with that problem back that has been made AFTER the first 200.

The nubs is another issue, but that's something the manufacturer is working on.

Failing power circuit? What's not working? Battery charging broken? Could also be the battery. It doesn't work without battery? That's no fault, some chips from TI don't work without a battery - but after all, their documentation says that it shouldn't work without battery...

About warranty: Yep, basically, you lose warranty when opening the unit. I, however, handle this like I handled it with GPH devices: If you mod your L/R buttons and the nubs fail sometimes later, I will give warranty. If the nubs fail and I can see big crater holes from improper soldering there, it's not covered in warranty. That's just me though, you have to ask craig how he handles this.

About slow Wifi: still weird issue, especially since it's only slow for some guys. Mine works perfectly fine at home, was a bit slow at the hotel I spent during vacation... but my mobile phone (XPeria X1) couldn't even load a single website at that hotel, so my Pandora was better than my Sony Ericsson device in that case.
Weird thing, something that needs to be figured out for sure, but as the slowness seems to depend on the access point, so a software thing and no quality control issue.

Yes, QC was very bad at the beginning, but we learnt and fixed those problems. The failings you see here are from the first units though - as said, I haven't got any new ones for RMA yet.

Failure rate is similar to the first edition batch of the gp2x F100 - no surprise, since the development and manufacturing has been done with low funds there as well.

 

[craigix]

This thread does amaze me too, the number of returns is so low yet there is this perceived collective that every other Pandora is faulty. It's actually under 5% including the first 200 which was a learning curve.

Go on any Apple forum and you get the same impression, but I'd bet again they see very few returns. No one goes on a forum and writes how their unit works fine because what would be the point?

As for the shoulder buttons this does confuse me, they are all done the same way now and all tested and all work when they leave.

You also have people on here saying 'ohhh my unit has all these faults too!' Then they say in the same thread they have previously opened it or they bought it broken?! We really have been trying to make something clear : If you open your Pandora the chances are you will break it. It's far more complex than it looks to build. Even putting it back together *in the wrong order* will mess up the case alignment.

And I hate to say this but with the returns a big minority of them have *clearly* been opened and put back together wrongly. We know. We build them. One of them was particularly bad. Sometimes with these units I can fix them by just putting them together correctly. Sometimes due to the user putting the screws back in too tight they have broken the case (screws in plastic will turn forever unit they go out the other side or crush something internally).

Tell me, GP32X, what should we do with such units?

 

[tsh]

It looks like there are 6 solder pads for each nub, and they don't look too tiny. It looks do-able by someone with soldering experience.

It is harder than it might appear. If you're experienced with SMT, no problem.

Today, I went use to my Pandora and it said my battery was low, and the meter was at 9%. Since I had it plugged in all night, and all day while I was at work, this seemed a little odd. I've been fiddling with for the last hour, and still haven't got it to charge.

Can you check the info from the battery monitor, and post on this thread http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/54057-charging-issues/
You can dump all the info like this:

grep . /sys/class/power_supply/bq27500-0/*

 

[Prometheus]

And I hate to say this but with the returns a big minority of them have *clearly* been opened and put back together wrongly. We know. We build them. One of them was particularly bad. Sometimes with these units I can fix them by just putting them together correctly. Sometimes due to the user putting the screws back in too tight they have broken the case (screws in plastic will turn forever unit they go out the other side or crush something internally).

Ooh, ouch. Makes me glad that I'm not THAT technical. I wouldn't even dare. :lol: (And if I was that technical, I wouldn't dream of sending it back if I had opened it.)

 

[gp32rich]

This thread does amaze me too, the number of returns is so low yet there is this perceived collective that every other Pandora is faulty. It's actually under 5% including the first 200 which was a learning curve.

Go on any Apple forum and you get the same impression, but I'd bet again they see very few returns. No one goes on a forum and writes how their unit works fine because what would be the point?

As for the shoulder buttons this does confuse me, they are all done the same way now and all tested and all work when they leave.

You also have people on here saying 'ohhh my unit has all these faults too!' Then they say in the same thread they have previously opened it or they bought it broken?! We really have been trying to make something clear : If you open your Pandora the chances are you will break it. It's far more complex than it looks to build. Even putting it back together *in the wrong order* will mess up the case alignment.

And I hate to say this but with the returns a big minority of them have *clearly* been opened and put back together wrongly. We know. We build them. One of them was particularly bad. Sometimes with these units I can fix them by just putting them together correctly. Sometimes due to the user putting the screws back in too tight they have broken the case (screws in plastic will turn forever unit they go out the other side or crush something internally).

Tell me, GP32X, what should we do with such units?

Make a video of a broken case that clearly shows bad screws, crushed parts and serial numbers to offend the guilty!

 

[Sugar_Kane]

Craig, would it be possible to cover some, or at least one of the screw holes with a tamper proof sticker? Then you'll have concrete proof against anyone claiming to have not opened their devices.

Something like this:

Spoiler

 

[neko]

About slow Wifi: still weird issue, especially since it's only slow for some guys. Mine works perfectly fine at home, was a bit slow at the hotel I spent during vacation... but my mobile phone (XPeria X1) couldn't even load a single website at that hotel, so my Pandora was better than my Sony Ericsson device in that case.
Weird thing, something that needs to be figured out for sure, but as the slowness seems to depend on the access point, so a software thing and no quality control issue.

The wifi doesn't work well with weak signals. It needs to be close to the access point, otherwise it drops packets or just won't connect.

I also got one with only one working SD slot, so you seem to have a QC problem there. The other slot works somewhat but gives random errors.

 

[Prometheus]

Something like this:

Spoiler

I just had this hilarious mental-image of a Pandora plastered with all of those. :lol:

 

[craigix]

Craig, would it be possible to cover some, or at least one of the screw holes with a tamper proof sticker? Then you'll have concrete proof against anyone claiming to have not opened their devices.

Something like this:

Spoiler

We want to, we just fear a backlash.

 

[neko]

Go on any Apple forum and you get the same impression, but I'd bet again they see very few returns. No one goes on a forum and writes how their unit works fine because what would be the point?

The iPod/iPad has no hinge, no shoulder buttons, no volume wheel, no directional pad, no nubs, no SD slots, and no keyboard. Other than the battery and wifi, it has none of the things that usually break on the Pandora.

 

[mali]

We want to, we just fear a backlash.

Afaik, those stickers are useless in the EU, I might be mistaken though. You'll have to dig up the laws yourself

 

[mosschops]

Tell me, GP32X, what should we do with such units?

Fix what is broken within warranty and advise on the price of fixing what is broken "out of warranty", highlighting how you know what is broken "out of warranty". Then the customer can have their unit back with the in warranty fixed as per the warranty and choose if they want their bodging fixed at the stated cost or not.

I have spent many a happy hour sat in the queue of a *large* local pc and parts supplier where they will crack open a PC and say "you did this", "this is your fault you pay" and or even or "yes, its a faulty part. lets swap another in" while i wait to be served or have something looked at.

A few weeks ago i stood in the queue while somebody tried to argue the toss that the reason their PC wouldnt boot wasnt the fact that the RAM has been put in the wrong way AND had had another notch cut into the ram (presumably with a craft knife as the tech showed me the ram after the person stormed out) but that the ram was bad!


[edit] Craigix if you are still about what chipset were in those wifi dongles you were looking at, the cool ones ive randomly bought aint workin!

 

[Sugar_Kane]

I have had many devices with those kinds of stickers on in the UK.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with having one of those on there. As it is already stated that opening your unit will void the warranty anyway, would you guys really object to being able to prove that you hadn't tinkered?

It might be a controversial point but trust had initially been given and it appears to have been abused, so perhaps we have now made this necessary.

 

[mali]

I don't want to contribute too much to this discussion as I'm a bit "handicapped" by prior discussions
I just want to state that you have to comply with laws and you can't do things as you like as a business. I haven't found any stickers on recently purchased devices
A first step would be to describe how to assemble a Pandora correctly to prevent modders from breaking their devices, sounds logical, doesn't it?

 

[mcqfesijiba]

I too am a member of the defective Pandora club. My unit arrived with a right shoulder button that didn't work quite right. After about a week my left nub broke. This weekend my LCD started acting screwy. Color went all wonkey.. then picture started fading in/out and doing weird stuff before finally going out. After a while and some tweaking the picture came back - but something is still wrong. There are random green'ish outlines on items that I select in minimenu... and things like the image of the SNES for the SNES emulator have weird green spots around the edges..

I'm in the US (Michigan) -- not exactly thrilled with the cost (and time) for shipping it back to England.

I'm in Michigan too. Fortunately faulty nubs don't really ruin it as much as other things like display problems do. The cost and probable turnaround time are definitely deterring me from sending mine back in. I figure, I would be without it for a minimum of 2 weeks best case perfect world scenario (so probably more like a month or more). Honestly, as long as it's only the nubs that are a problem, I might not even send it back in. I'm just crossing my fingers no other problems arise as still I enjoy it nub-less as it pretty much is right now.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

Sorry dude, I'm not arguing with you I swear! They have them on sky boxes, and the sticker of the back of xbox controllers serves a similar purpose. I'm pretty sure there have been some on the inside of consoles that I've tinkered with, or at least something that you have to remove which makes it obvious that you have opened them.

 

[mali]

^ I don't feel argued with And even if I did, I like a good discussion
I think we have to view the problem from a further away perspective. Let's say we have two ways to handle the problem. A good-will/trust way and a "basta!" way. Everybody reacts differently to these different ways. I suppose the backlash Craig talks about is part of this scenario. It's the same point I tried to get across in that overclocking discussion, but I fail to describe it in English anyway, so I won't bother trying again. I just say that you have to accept the consequences when you decide to go a certain route. It's the Community/business dilemma.
I think ED's way has been quite successful thus far and I also have to applaud to Craig. The real question is, if a switch to the warranty badge way would do more good or bad in the current situation and in the long run.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

Maybe if the sticker wasn't so threatening. It's really only to indicate that you have willingly opened your unit, so perhaps a blank sticker and a few lines in the guide saying something like 'by removing the sticker on the underside of your unit, you are agreeing that you cannot claim to have not opened it'

 

[mali]

Sure, you can do it that way, but what happens if your nub breaks and unfortunately you broke the seal while modding the shoulder buttons before?

 

[Sugar_Kane]

I guess there will always be exceptions, but those are the ones that will have to be judged individually. It would be more obvious to OP which were telling the truth as the modifications made could be seen, obviously that's still not proof that they didn't mess something up while making those mods, but it would be a start. Once the units start to flow again, and the shoulder buttons and nubs are perfect, then that shouldnt be an issue.

I think the sticker would at least protect from your average joe trying to open it up to prod around, then claiming they hadn't.