Munich may drop Linux and return to Windows

[Hồng Thất Công]

http://www.zdnet.com/munich-sheds-light-on-the-cost-of-dropping-linux-and-returning-to-windows-7000034718/

"...a recent study by the German national security agency BSI, which found that Linux had a higher number of vulnerabilities than Windows..."

 

[TrashyMG]

http://www.zdnet.com/munich-sheds-light-on-the-cost-of-dropping-linux-and-returning-to-windows-7000034718/

"...a recent study by the German national security agency BSI, which found that Linux had a higher number of vulnerabilities than Windows..."

So to translate Microsoft is throwing money at them.

 

[Glyph Reader]

http://www.zdnet.com/munich-sheds-light-on-the-cost-of-dropping-linux-and-returning-to-windows-7000034718/

"...a recent study by the German national security agency BSI, which found that Linux had a higher number of vulnerabilities than Windows..."

So to translate Microsoft is throwing money at them.

Well, not exactly. 

Technically, Linux has more documented vulnerabilities.  Linux's vulnerabilities are more strict and precise in their documentation then Microsoft is about theirs.  In the end, Linux has many tiny tediously located vulnerabilities of almost no importance, and Windows has a good amount of critical security issues.  Linux wins over Windows for security overall by a landslide.  And that is not even going into Linux's more secure design vs Window's not so secure design. 

-Glyph Reader

 

[rygD]

Technically, Linux has more documented vulnerabilities.  Linux's vulnerabilities are more strict and precise in their documentation then Microsoft is about theirs.

It is what isn't documented that is a bigger threat.  I think Microsoft also allows for their source code to be perused by government agencies and such, so even if not documented, if you send people that know what they are doing to take a look at it maybe they can make a good determination about the security, but you can't be lazy here.  I think laziness is actually probably a big part of it, since many people may be more familiar with the Windows way of doing certain things.

Oh, and you have to keep in mind that the OS alone is only one part of the puzzle here.  If you don't have a system set up properly it won't really matter if there are less vulnerabilities in the OS (what good is a big, thick vault door with the best locks if you never close and lock it?).  Then you have other software that you are using that could be a problem.  Don't forget to look into your hardware, too.

 

[Granitehead]

" which found that Linux had a higher number of vulnerabilities than Windows but a smaller proporition of critical ones. However, he added the comparison was open to interpretation."

This was part-cited, completely screwing up the meaning. The article /says/, that Linux has less critical bugs and that you need to interpret the study the right way.

This doesn't really sound like they are about to move back to me. The article also mentions they would need to upgrade /all/ of their desktop hardware because Windows can't run on their current set ups, which they didn't have to upgrade earlier just because they switched to Linux.

 

[b_o_b]

Not sure if the real issue for management is a rational one. What "Linux" needs is a better marketing department to convince them. FOSS doesn't seem to provide that, it is generally seen as a bunch of zealots even among their own peers. 

Every OS has problems, you should hear the complaints about Windows from my colleagues and don't let me start about SAP. 

Continues support - so instant bug fixing or training - and familiarity is more important for the employees working with it. 

What also is important is to look at the use of desktops at home (not the OS, the apps). People generally use something like Outlook, Microsoft Office - drawing / photo programs -  specific 'fun' programs (e.g. how to make a X-mas card) and games. 

I recently tried to create a powerpoint presentation with some sound embedded (people love to create and share stuff like that) and failed horribly - with powerpoint OpenOffice freezing numerous times on me.  

If basic stuff like this is not available or working you will never win the hearts and minds of the general public and they will keep complaining about Linux because it doesn't do the fun stuff that works at home. 

 

[Linux-SWAT]

"No return to using Windows as the main desktop OS is planned".

You should change the title of the thread.

 

[Crionic]

"No return to using Windows as the main desktop OS is planned".

You should change the title of the thread.

The last words are certainly not spoken yet. Munichs new mayor is complaining about Limux since he took office.

Also, Microsoft moves its German HQ to Munich in 2016. I'm pretty sure, this will cause some consequences for the project.

 

[fusion_power]

That's in the news for some time here in germany. But afaik they don't want to go back because of "security reasons" but mainly just because of usability/compatibility, mostly around Open/MS Office. It seems to be about data transfer to other cities that are using Windows instead of Linux. I also read that Munichs Linux may not be the newest and many problems are just because of outdated Linux programs.

So all in all these issues could be fixed without going back to Windows, if they just want.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Guys, I posted this article here and partly quoted the article not to mean to twist the words or change the meaning.  I just want you guys to read the article and would like to see your comments/insights.

Anyway, I hope this will not happen as it would be a shame for Munich and perhaps Linux mentality in Munich government.  In reading the article, the most important factor that prevents Munich government from switching to Windows is the pricetag/cost.  So this means if Microsoft really wants to rid of Limux/Linux from Munich government is pay  for the switch...  14million euro is nothing to MS.

 

[b_o_b]

14million euro is nothing to MS.

Indeed, they will gladly pay for switching back or reduce prices. Munich should have been a success story for Linux but it has been communicated as a PITA since day one. 

IMO there is definitely something wrong with the spokesmen of the Linux lobby (if there is any). This project should have been treated as a pet project of the entire Linux community and fiercely defended by the best skilled communicators available.

It appears like Munich continuously has to explain why the hell they chose for Linux and are still on Linux.

It is very easy to find a couple of unsatisfied employees and focus and on a couple of issues. Now the mayor seems to be a MS fanboy it is a matter of time before they switch back unless the Linux elite will speak up loudly (and maybe even give free support to Munich).   

 

[ghostpatch]

Did some of you guys misread the article? 

There's no reason to justify switching back. They said it would cost them 3.15million, not including staff, infrastructure and licencing costs to go back to Windows7 (Win8 beeing even more expensive). They also saved 11million in licencing and hardware costs. The article even states Windows has more critical vulnerabilities. Sounds like success to me.

 

[b_o_b]

Did some of you guys misread the article? 

There's no reason to justify switching back. They said it would cost them 3.15million, not including staff, infrastructure and licencing costs to go back to Windows7 (Win8 beeing even more expensive). They also saved 11million in licencing and hardware costs. The article even states Windows has more critical vulnerabilities. Sounds like success to me.

Not really. The headline of the article "Munich sheds light on the cost of dropping Linux and returning to Windows" suggests there is a wish to return to Windows and they consider switching to Linux a mistake. You can't really say that making €14m costs to save €11m is a success.  

The mayor is a Windows fan and there doesn't seem to be strong PR for defending the switch to Linux (only in the beginning of the project).  

If it was interpreted as a success we should have seen a lot of interest from other governments and as far as I know this is the only project of this magnitude in 10 years. Nobody tries to copy this 'success' - if it is a success.. why not? 

 

That could have two reasons: it isn't a success and there are issues that are not yet solved or can't be solved. I would love to see more details of the issues they are reporting.

If it is a success then the positive news isn't communicated properly - I don't think I have seen 100% positive articles about the switch. The best I have seen suggests that it works, maybe cost a bit less, but it is never more than 'meh'.

For considering this to be a huge success you need headlines like this 'Munich has the most efficient and cost effective IT solution due to Linux implementation". 

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

...


For considering this to be a huge success you need headlines like this 'Munich has the most efficient and cost effective IT solution due to Linux implementation".

You need a linux fanboy for this

 

[b_o_b]

You need a linux fanboy for this

Hehe, or someone who is objective and isn't directly or indirectly sponsored by MS.

I would love to see someone going with a camera to Munich and interview some of the people working there. IT staff, end users, management...and of course that damn mayor (yes I know... guilty ) 

Other projects could learn al lot from this. 

 

[fusion_power]

Did some of you guys misread the article? 

There's no reason to justify switching back. They said it would cost them 3.15million, not including staff, infrastructure and licencing costs to go back to Windows7 (Win8 beeing even more expensive). They also saved 11million in licencing and hardware costs. The article even states Windows has more critical vulnerabilities. Sounds like success to me.

Of course. Some WISH to switch back but I doubt it will happen. Mainly the mayor of Munich wishes to switch back afaik but I'm sure it's because he has some to intense contact to Microsoft lobbyists.  Overall the LIMUX project is counted as success, even with the compatibility issues they may have. 

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

...

even with the compatibility issues they may have. 

 Just do a sudo apt-get remove microsoft

 

[fusion_power]

That would only work if you do it worldwide.  And until all my  Windows games don't run (good) under Linux, I fear I will still need Windows on my PC for a while. ^^"

 

[Wally]

Automatic message

This topic has been moved from "Pandora → General Talk" to "Off topic → Offtopic General talk".

 

[kasp]

Linux as a desktop is terrible for the average user though.   The desktop has improved greatly over the years but it is still behind windows (Well perhaps not 8 anyway) and they are probably looking at productivity costs.

There is a reason why windows dominates the business end of things.