Linux For Life~!1111111Eleven11111

[Nintendo]

 

[Qwertyuiop]

:rolleyes:
(Could be Youtube's fault though )

 

[second exodous]

That is one heck of a theme/color scheme Defo, it would probably make my eyes bleed if I used it too much.

Ah, morons of youtube. It made me laugh though, I think a lot of computer users are way to serious about what they use most of the time. Good to see someone joking about it in a non-abusive way.

 

[dnlgreenwood]

hey defo, that theme is making me miss linux. I accidentally installed XP over it instead of on it's own partition. Now I don't want to go through the hell of setting it up again and dealing with GRUB. Linux is only free if your time is free if you have free time.

​

 

[second exodous]

I accidentally installed XP over it instead of on it's own partition. Now I don't want to go through the hell of setting it up again and dealing with GRUB. Linux is only free if your time is free if you have free time.

Yeah, because it is soooo hard to install Ubuntu and have it auto set up grub for you. It also takes a heck of a lot longer to install XP, then you add hours onto the XP install when you consider hunting down every driver for graphics, wireless, and printers when Ubuntu just works. You can't really say that Ubuntu is difficult install when you just said that you accomplished installing XP.

 

[Qwertyuiop]

That is one heck of a theme/color scheme Defo, it would probably make my eyes bleed if I used it too much.

I tried to find a Thanksgiving type theme that wasn't obnoxious, but failed, and had to settle for this one.

 

[second exodous]

I use Linux Mint for the sole reason of getting away from Ubuntu's browns, tans, and purples. I think the colors hurt my eyes more than the firefox theme.

 

[Iorgy77]

Yeah, because it is soooo hard to install Ubuntu and have it auto set up grub for you. It also takes a heck of a lot longer to install XP, then you add hours onto the XP install when you consider hunting down every driver for graphics, wireless, and printers when Ubuntu just works. You can't really say that Ubuntu is difficult install when you just said that you accomplished installing XP.

XP install when you consider hunting down every driver for graphics, wireless, and printers when Ubuntu just works.

hunting down every driver for graphics, wireless, and printers when Ubuntu just works.

graphics, wireless, Ubuntu just works.

graphics, wireless, Ubuntu.

bwahahahahaha

 

[second exodous]

-snip-
bwahahahahaha

Not going to bite.

 

[Fishbong]

Actually i tried installing Ubuntu on my Notebook half a year ago. But the headphone socket didn't work. Took me a day to find out that this is a problem in the Alsa driver that has been present for about 4 years, there are a dozen possible fixes for it, each of which only work for a percentage of computers and to try out all those fixes without success. Maybe a more Linux - savy person might have figured out a solution, but at this point i just didn't care anymore as i also had problems with the Wifi disconnecting randomly and then not working, even when reconnected, until a reboot.

 

[WizardStan]

-snip-
bwahahahahaha

Not going to bite.

I will.
I've set up 5 computers for friends and family with Ubuntu (3 dual boots to XP) and had no problem with any drivers. Except for modem. Gall danged Winmodems. I am not paying $20 for a driver, thank you very much.
Granted they were all NVidia machines. Maybe ATI has problems?
I personally had one wifi stick that I needed to compile a driver for, but that was just a download, configure, sudo make install, and done. Surprisingly easy as soon as you stop thinking of computers as magic thinky boxes. That particular chipset is now part of the kernel, so it's no longer a problem either.
On the other hand I have never had an XP install that didn't need me to find and install at least network, video, and audio drivers. Frequently requiring USB and IDE drivers as well, for entirely unknown reasons. I could go off on a completely separate rant about how Windows handles USB, but it's irrelevant.
Anywho, this is obviously all just my own experiences, of course. If you've had problems I'd be very interested in hearing about them.
That's not to say installing Linux (even Ubuntu) is a necessarily flawless operation, just that the arguments against installing it are just as applicable (and in many cases even more so) to the process of installing Windows. The only reason Windows isn't a pain to get on your computer is because the company you bought the computer from has gone to the trouble to install it and all the associated drivers, often leaving the necessary stuff on a shadow drive so you can easily restore to factory default.

 

[Javacat]

Comparing XP and Ubuntu with regards to drivers isn't really fair. XP is almost 10 years old and doesn't include the drivers for a lot of modern hardware. Ubuntu is new and does include most of them.

Try installing a distro from 4 or 5 years ago onto your current machine and see how well it works straight away.

7 would be a much better comparison, and it works pretty much straight away and is quick to install. The only thing you really need to download are the graphics drivers, which aren't exactly hard to find and you have to do that in Ubuntu anyway (well.. to get decent/closed drivers installed..)

Incidentally, Ubuntu's graphics drivers didn't work straight away on my laptop. X couldn't start up with them. I had to dig around for awhile to find some random command to run to get it starting properly.

 

[WizardStan]

Comparing XP and Ubuntu with regards to drivers isn't really fair. XP is almost 10 years old and doesn't include the drivers for a lot of modern hardware. Ubuntu is new and does include most of them.

Fair enough, but that's yet another stroke against Windows in my opinion: Ubuntu is updated every 6 months; Windows is updated every 3 or 4 years. And that's to say nothing of the repository updates from which drivers are pulled, allowing you to install from a 2 year old disk and have it updated automatically over the internet in an afternoon. Others may see this as a negative, that you absolutely have to update every 2 years to keep getting updates while Windows world continues to support XP even 10 years later despite what Microsoft says. Different needs for different people and all that.
It's also kind of where a lot of anti-linux sentiment comes from as well: they tried installing it 5 or 6 years ago, had a problem (and at the time there were problems) and believe that these problems have persisted indefinitely. Everything changes, some things get better, some get worse, and all the rehashed arguments against Linux either haven't applied for months (if not years), or apply equally well to Windows installs; that is my point.

 

[second exodous]

7 would be a much better comparison, and it works pretty much straight away and is quick to install. The only thing you really need to download are the graphics drivers, which aren't exactly hard to find and you have to do that in Ubuntu anyway (well.. to get decent/closed drivers installed..)

Incidentally, Ubuntu's graphics drivers didn't work straight away on my laptop. X couldn't start up with them. I had to dig around for awhile to find some random command to run to get it starting properly.

From what I hear 7 isn't much better than XP as far as included drivers. Read a few reviews about Ubuntu and if they compare the install experience they always say that Ubuntu is much easier to install and includes almost every driver, much more than a clean install of 7.

What kind of graphics chip do you have? Nvidia, ATi, Intel, and VIA all have excellent open source drivers that should get you up and running. When installing proprietary driver Ubuntu has never let me down, well, sometimes the drivers on their repos is a few versions behind, but they still work.

I don't know, but all these doubters I kinda doubt, no one can take a shrink wrapped windows and a burned Ubuntu disc and even compare the install experience. I don't care what PC you have, windows will never have everything you need, but Ubuntu will come dang close if not right on. A restore disc made for your PC might do a better job, but now your locked into all the bloat ware that came with your PC if you choose this option just to make it easier to install.

 

[absolofdoom]

I don't know, but all these doubters I kinda doubt, no one can take a shrink wrapped windows and a burned Ubuntu disc and even compare the install experience. I don't care what PC you have, windows will never have everything you need, but Ubuntu will come dang close if not right on. A restore disc made for your PC might do a better job, but now your locked into all the bloat ware that came with your PC if you choose this option just to make it easier to install.

Hahaha, maybe this doesn't count, but you can "obtain" some really nice copies of windows, with apps included (you don't need to install firefox first-thing!), and more drivers. There's also mini versions that throw away the bloat, and focus on drivers and speed. You generally use those if you want to game and need that extra bit of performance for an almost-good-enough gaming PC, or on a really old one that XP usually crawls on. As far as I'm concerned, if I had to pay for a copy of windows with my computer and they don't even give me an install disk for it; I'm perfectly in the right to download one. (legal or not I don't know or care)

But yeah, stock windows CD's suck ass; I had the displeasure of helping set up some PC's at school a few years ago. They also take forever and you have to babysit them. Then the printer drivers, and the graphics drivers, and if you're unlucky the wireless drivers...sheesh. The only issue you ever have with linux is wireless, and that's been getting a lot better anyway. (though ndiswrapper is a major pain in the ass when that's your only choice...)

 

[Javacat]

What kind of graphics chip do you have? Nvidia, ATi, Intel, and VIA all have excellent open source drivers that should get you up and running. When installing proprietary driver Ubuntu has never let me down, well, sometimes the drivers on their repos is a few versions behind, but they still work.

It's for one of my laptops and it's got an Nvidia graphics card. The open source drivers worked from what I remember, but were a bit laggy and the fancy effects wouldn't work.

Just so people don't get the wrong idea, I'm a fan of Windows, Linux and OS X. They are all great in their own way and they all have silly little quirks that can be annoying. Due to my work I mainly deal with Windows, but if I see a need/opportunity I'll bring in Linux (mainly for firewalls/PBX servers and network diagnostics.. Windows is too noisy). When I do get my hands on OS X, I find it a somewhat refreshing change to work with.

For the laptop I have Ubuntu on, other than the graphics, more or less everything else worked fine. I believe the wireless drivers had to be downloaded, but once they were installed they worked awesomely. I didn't need to mess around with ndiswrapper and have all the wifi modes available for doing all the packet sniffing/injecting I want.
Bluetooth was a bit odd as I had to first have it turned on from within Windows before Ubuntu could see it. I believe that's more due to a brainfart on Dell's behalf though and I have similar issues if I do a clean install of Windows. For anyone interested, it's a bit of a catch 22. The bluetooth hardware is controlled by a software switch. If the hardware is off then the the OS can't see it's there and so the drivers/software needed to turn it on aren't installed.




I was wanting to make a comment about repositories playing a huge role in the general usability of Linux, but dunno what I really want to say
I guess that quite a few of the recent converts (as in the more general public) wouldn't go anywhere near Linux/Ubuntu if they had to prat around downloading the different files needed to get apps working. Being able to just click a few menu items to get a huuuuge list of apps available to quickly install is just awesome. It would be great if Windows had something like that as standard (and the same with OS X), but I can't see anything like that ever coming out for them. Microsoft would just get all sorts of anticompetition crap thrown at them for pushing out other software suppliers

 

[dnlgreenwood]

I accidentally installed XP over it instead of on it's own partition. Now I don't want to go through the hell of setting it up again and dealing with GRUB. Linux is only free if your time is free if you have free time.

Yeah, because it is soooo hard to install Ubuntu and have it auto set up grub for you. It also takes a heck of a lot longer to install XP, then you add hours onto the XP install when you consider hunting down every driver for graphics, wireless, and printers when Ubuntu just works. You can't really say that Ubuntu is difficult install when you just said that you accomplished installing XP.

The truth is, it was EXTREMELY easy to install Windows XP. I already had all of my drivers handy (I always keep them backed up just in case.) Of course, my opinion may be biased because I've installed Windows over 20 times on various computers. (Partly because of hard drive failure and data erasure.)

Ubuntu does NOT just work. That is far from true as far as I am concerned. I installed quite a few different distros of Ubuntu, and I gave up on it because of things like my wireless adapter not working, the sound not working, the time not setting properly... the list goes on. The only Linux distro that was stable and worked perfectly was Arch, but it took a hell of a long time to set up (por ejemplo, I had to set up my user account without any prior knowledge of how to do that). It also took a long time to install, because of some error in loading the installer (I had to find a workaround). I have had huge problems with wireless networks in Arch. I couldn't properly connect to some of my most important wireless networks. I spent countless hours trying to figure out what was wrong.

It takes me between 45 minutes to an hour to set up Windows XP, and half an hour for Windows 7... I haven't really counted, it's an estimate. I usually work on something else while waiting. I download and install programs as I need them. I don't even use most of them anyway

Still, I miss linux... I just don't have the time to set it up and everything. Now that I think about it, I miss Windows 2000. Windows 98 and DOS as well.

Oh, and I don't trust anything to automatically set up grub. I don't want it to harm my other partitions.

Random: You know what I hate about the retailer from whom I purchased my laptop from? They gave me three recovery discs, and my laptop doesn't have any optical drives. They suck... They really suck. It's just teasing you. "Hey, you want to use these recovery discs? Sorry, you don't have an optical drive, but we'll give you them anyway."

I don't know, but all these doubters I kinda doubt, no one can take a shrink wrapped windows and a burned Ubuntu disc and even compare the install experience. I don't care what PC you have, windows will never have everything you need, but Ubuntu will come dang close if not right on. A restore disc made for your PC might do a better job, but now your locked into all the bloat ware that came with your PC if you choose this option just to make it easier to install.

Hahaha, maybe this doesn't count, but you can "obtain" some really nice copies of windows, with apps included (you don't need to install firefox first-thing!), and more drivers. There's also mini versions that throw away the bloat, and focus on drivers and speed. You generally use those if you want to game and need that extra bit of performance for an almost-good-enough gaming PC, or on a really old one that XP usually crawls on. As far as I'm concerned, if I had to pay for a copy of windows with my computer and they don't even give me an install disk for it; I'm perfectly in the right to download one. (legal or not I don't know or care)

But yeah, stock windows CD's suck ass; I had the displeasure of helping set up some PC's at school a few years ago. They also take forever and you have to babysit them. Then the printer drivers, and the graphics drivers, and if you're unlucky the wireless drivers...sheesh. The only issue you ever have with linux is wireless, and that's been getting a lot better anyway. (though ndiswrapper is a major pain in the ass when that's your only choice...)

Yes, I've been using one of those cut-down versions of Windows XP. I just hate windows movie maker and all that other crap it comes with... Pretty much everything worked right out of the box on my laptop after installing XP; I just needed wireless, wired, video, sound drivers.

 

[WizardStan]

The truth is, it was EXTREMELY easy to install Windows XP. I already had all of my drivers handy (I always keep them backed up just in case.)

But how hard would it be to install Windows XP if you didn't keep those drivers handy? If it were possible to download the drivers that you would have needed in advance for the clean install of Ubuntu you had problems with, would that have eliminated most of your problems?

Oh, and I don't trust anything to automatically set up grub. I don't want it to harm my other partitions.

I don't know why that would be a problem. grub doesn't touch the partitions themselves, just the boot loader on your primary disk, and it does its best to play nice with any existing boot loader. Absolute worst case scenario would be it overwrites the Windows boot loader, and you can recover that in about 2 minutes if you've got the Windows CD.

 

[Iorgy77]

@WizardStan just like ubuntu XP has basic drivers so the system can be usable without using specific drivers. The same argument can be used for ubuntu, how the hell are you supposed to access the drivers online if you cant get wifi working? I had a horrible time with installing ubuntu on a compaq presario a few years back, there was only very basic support for my gfx and the wifi wouldnt work unless I used an XP driver with a wrapper that I had to read about on a forum and was hacky to get working, in the end I wasted a lot of time. Then I went back to the same machine a few years later and it wouldnt let me update the OS, saying the version of ubuntu I had was no longer supported... WTF???

An XP install on the same machine just worked without downloading a thing.

Linux is getting there, but it isnt there yet, a lot harder to use and install than an MS OS at the moment unless you are willing to poke around forums looking for hacky solutions to obscure hardware problems or have a lot of linux knowledge.

 

[second exodous]

I guess everyone has different experiences with different hardware. For me, out of the last 10 computers I've installed Ubuntu on in the last few years everything has been flawless, both on pre-built and custom built.

Windows though, usually helping people upgrade their windows with a new version or convincing them it is easier to backup, wipe, then reinstall rather than using 4 or 5 anti-virus and male-ware programs to clean things up to a usable state I have never had an easy time. On those same PC's as an experiment I install Ubuntu before putting Windows 7(or Vista before 7) on it and it just works. Yes, you read that right, it just works, no tampering or downloading more driver, on wireless, wifi, sound, and graphics. Then I wipe it and start on the Hell that is installing Windows. Windows 7 still has trouble with wireless at least on pre-builts that are 'Vista certified', whatever that means because a shrink-wrapped Vista won't install easily either. I think when most people think 'windows is easy to install' they are using the restore CD make for their pre-built systems.

I don't know what to say, Ubuntu 'just works' for me on nearly every PC I install it on. Once in a while sound doesn't work, but that may be because weird sound problem in Ubuntu 8.something to 9.10. 10.04 and 10.10 don't seem to have these problems with sound.

I don't know, I wish you guys lived close so you could show me these problems because with my experience I find it hard to believe, but I'm sure you're not making it up, Ubuntu is not perfect I know, I just never run into these problems.