Lets Be Realistic...
- Thread starter MaGaIn
- Start date
realyst
Member
Trademark law is pretty much universally this(in as so far as I am not a lawyer, only an "armchair lawyer" and that laws vary greatly from country to country, I do believe the following points are valid in all regions)
If you trademark a term, it is for the type of product or service you are promoting. However, most trademark law is far more liberal in its wording and usually uses the following terms to justify that which is allowable and not:
As long as the name in question does not cause undo uncertainty as to the identity of the plaintiff and/or their brand, the trademark is non infringing.
That means that Pandora.com, the radio station, can not sue or cause pressure to craig and co regarding the name Pandora unless Craig and Co engage in any activity aimed at siphoning Pandora.com's userbase through deceptive or similar marketing(such as similar logo fonts/site layouts/etc...).
Pandora is a common term as well that predates both parties, so simply using the term "Pandora" is not sufficient to show malice.
However, if it makes you or Craig and Co more comfortable, adding a Umlaut above the "o" in a Rock-Band like fashion could further throw away the concerns.
Case in point:
Lindows: Microsoft was never able to actually win, though did exert enough pressure to change the name of the "I'm-just-like-Windows-really" Linux distro from Lindows to Linspire. Again, they didn't win. They only succeeded in pressuring Robertson to the point where it just wasn't worth it. But in honesty, Mike Robertson was threading the line and he knew it.
The sound of the name was fabricated in all likelyhood to draw in Windows users using the brand Microsoft themselves had created. What saved Robertson was that the logo, the marketing and the outright appearance of the distro was otherwise very different looking and would not fool the average consumer into thinking it was in fact Windows.
The sum up, trademark does not apply unless Craig and Co actively attempt to market towards Pandora.com customers or draw from existing Pandora.com marketing in an effort to advance their product or cause harm to Pandora.com's through obfuscation of where Pandora.com ends and OpenPandora begins.
If you trademark a term, it is for the type of product or service you are promoting. However, most trademark law is far more liberal in its wording and usually uses the following terms to justify that which is allowable and not:
As long as the name in question does not cause undo uncertainty as to the identity of the plaintiff and/or their brand, the trademark is non infringing.
That means that Pandora.com, the radio station, can not sue or cause pressure to craig and co regarding the name Pandora unless Craig and Co engage in any activity aimed at siphoning Pandora.com's userbase through deceptive or similar marketing(such as similar logo fonts/site layouts/etc...).
Pandora is a common term as well that predates both parties, so simply using the term "Pandora" is not sufficient to show malice.
However, if it makes you or Craig and Co more comfortable, adding a Umlaut above the "o" in a Rock-Band like fashion could further throw away the concerns.
Case in point:
Lindows: Microsoft was never able to actually win, though did exert enough pressure to change the name of the "I'm-just-like-Windows-really" Linux distro from Lindows to Linspire. Again, they didn't win. They only succeeded in pressuring Robertson to the point where it just wasn't worth it. But in honesty, Mike Robertson was threading the line and he knew it.
The sound of the name was fabricated in all likelyhood to draw in Windows users using the brand Microsoft themselves had created. What saved Robertson was that the logo, the marketing and the outright appearance of the distro was otherwise very different looking and would not fool the average consumer into thinking it was in fact Windows.
The sum up, trademark does not apply unless Craig and Co actively attempt to market towards Pandora.com customers or draw from existing Pandora.com marketing in an effort to advance their product or cause harm to Pandora.com's through obfuscation of where Pandora.com ends and OpenPandora begins.
imec
Member
QUOTE
What has a stupid legal system where you can sue anyone for just about anything, to do with a government type, especially the socialistic one?
Oh, and we are WAY off topic, might think about getting back to the issue.
B!
Like I said, it's used to threaten and scare people in order to keep a specific set of ideological or political beliefs in commonplace. Believe me, it's sad, but it's true. Socialism isn't as violent as communism or fascism, it's slow to infect, thus reducing rejection. While, socialism isn't confined to any specific viewpoint, it can be more effective when molded around one or two. By definition, a socialist government is defined as a system where property and income are dictated by social control, instead of individual determination or marketplace. Anyone who has ever had to deal with the US "legal" system knows that this is very much the case. <_<
And so the insane psychopathic wastoid ventured off into the night, ranting and foaming at the mouth. Many of people found this site quite queer, but Tom knew in his heart that this moment would last forever.
"Every kiss begins with Kay©."
What has a stupid legal system where you can sue anyone for just about anything, to do with a government type, especially the socialistic one?
Oh, and we are WAY off topic, might think about getting back to the issue.
B!
Like I said, it's used to threaten and scare people in order to keep a specific set of ideological or political beliefs in commonplace. Believe me, it's sad, but it's true. Socialism isn't as violent as communism or fascism, it's slow to infect, thus reducing rejection. While, socialism isn't confined to any specific viewpoint, it can be more effective when molded around one or two. By definition, a socialist government is defined as a system where property and income are dictated by social control, instead of individual determination or marketplace. Anyone who has ever had to deal with the US "legal" system knows that this is very much the case. <_<
And so the insane psychopathic wastoid ventured off into the night, ranting and foaming at the mouth. Many of people found this site quite queer, but Tom knew in his heart that this moment would last forever.
"Every kiss begins with Kay©."
China is a socialistic country, Sweden is one, but the US? I didn't see that one coming, i have to admit. Capitalistic, yes, Socialistic no, but that said, i doubt the official standpoint is "Be as greedy as you can, and leave everyone else without resources." The two doesn't work together, you can be only one, or the other.
B!
B!
quartercast
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 1,551
Do you mean capitalist and socialist?Mr B said:
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Perky_Goth
Member
No. You can summarize it to that at all.imec said:
QUOTE
Lindows: Microsoft was never able to actually win, though did exert enough pressure to change the name of the "I'm-just-like-Windows-really" Linux distro from Lindows to Linspire. Again, they didn't win. They only succeeded in pressuring Robertson to the point where it just wasn't worth it. But in honesty, Mike Robertson was threading the line and he knew it.
Microsoft paid a heavy sum for them to quit
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imec
Member
Not really, although I'm not claiming that America is a "straight socialist country." It is a system that is very much being attempted to replace capitalism today (the higher up in the system, the more corrupted it gets). And I'm afraid that it will, slowly. As long as the rich stay on top, and the middle-class stays on the bottom, America is a happy nation. I could compare America to a gilded watch, people typically believe that it's an expensive accessory, but below the surface, it's just as cheap and worthless as the one in the fifty-cent machine. As long as an individuals mindset is dictated by what they witness on television, America will continue its march to "happiness." No one ever said an individual or government has to be openly socialist, anyways.Mr B said:
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The first gp2x batch was 1000. So we have triple as much here for the Pandora.MaGaIn said:
And those were pretty faulty as well...
Three of the main gp2x distributors also sell the Pandora... and I already had some more dealers asking for the Pandora...
QUOTE
2. GPH has far deeper pockets than the creators of the Pandora system
The money for the first batch of the gp2x was funded from the paid preorders... 'nough said.
QUOTE
3. GPH sells the GP2X for about 200 USD less than the Pandora is going to be sold for
Errm, yeah, and you can get a 900MHz PC for far less than a 4GHz PC.
That's why 4GHz PCs don't sell.
QUOTE
4. GPH is able to and most likely will do a GP2X redesign in the next two years that will run the Pandora
... errrm. Yeah. They weren't even able to do all the redesigns properly the users are waiting for since about 1,5 years...
QUOTE
5. The name Pandora is most likely reserved by the online radio website pandora.com, which may result in legal issues for the creators
It doesn't. We checked.
QUOTE
6. GPH will most likely have lawyers look into the Pandora and find something wrong
Yeah. And next, the GPH lawyers will look into the PSP and the Nintendo DS and will ruin Sony and Nintendo by that...
What will they find? The OpenSouce idea? Yeah, right.
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magicman5421
TASTY SNACKS
the name pandora is TRADEmarked by the internet radio station. That solely means that nobody can make another INTERNET RADIO STATION named pandora. the developers are well within their rights.MaGaIn said:
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Classic Team
Member
I dont know if this will clarify, but heres A Quote from The Ultimate History Of Video Games, By Steven L. Kent:
QUOTE
Data East Vs. Epyx
In 1984, Data East released a game titled Karate Champ. Though it was not the first two-player fighting game (The first two player fighting game was Warrior, Released by Cinematronics in 1979),it was the first two-player martial arts tournament game and the progenitor of a genre that in the early 1990s would become extremely popular. In Karate Champ, Players controled a martial artist as he battled Computer-controlled fighters in tornament-style combat. (Karate Champ had two-player simultsneous action as well.) It featured several realistic blocks, kicks and punches and had a large, relatively humen-looking characters. The game was a modest hit in the arcades.
In October 1985, Data East released a home version of Karate Champ for the Commodore 64 computer. One month later, the british company called System III released a similar game Titled
International Karate. When California based Epyx, Inc., licenced the game and released it as World Karate Championship for the Commodore 64 in April 1986, Data East took Epyx to court, claiming that the "Overall appearance, compilation, and sequence of the audio and the visual display of the video game World Karate Championship infringed upon Karate Champ." Data East also claimed that World Karate Championship infringed upon its trademark and trade dress. The case went before Judge William A. Ingram of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.
Upon looking at both games, Ingram found several areas of similarity to support Data East's Claim:
A. Each game had fourteen moves.
B. Each game has a two-player option.
C. Each game has A one-player option.
D. Each game has forward and backward somersault moves and about-face moves.
E. Each game has a squatting reverse punch wherein the heel is not on the ground.
F. Each game has a upper-lunge punch.
G. Each game has Back Foot sweep.
H. Each game has A jumping sidekick.
I. Each game has A Low Kick.
J. Each game has a walk-backwards position.
K. Each game has changing background scenes.
L. Each game has 30-second countdown rounds.
M. Each game uses one referee.
N. In each game the referee says, "Begin", "Stop", "White", "Red", Which is depicted by a cartoon-style speech balloon.
O. Each game has a provision for 100 points per remaining second.
World Karate Championship borrowed other elements from Karate Champ. Both games featured fighters in eather Red or White Karate gis, and both featured bonus rounds in which players earned extra points by breaking bricks or dodgeing dangers. The court recognized that both games depicted karate tornaments, some duplication was inevitable. Karate in general, and karate tornaments in particular, included standard features such as karate gis, certain moves, and referees. Matches at karate tornaments involve two fighters earning points for karate maneuvers. The fights are scored by referees who award certian points for various moves. In his decision, Judge Ingram also noted that both games were made for the Commodore computer and that various constraints were inherent in the use of that computer. Even granting these constraints, the judge found too many similarities to ignore.
The district court found that exept for the graphic quality of Epyx's expressions, part of the scoreboard, the referee's physical appearance, and minor particulars in the "bonus phases", Data East's and Epyx's games are qualitatively identical.
Based on these foindings, Judge Ingram ordered Epyx to recall World Karate Championship and
International Karate. His decision was overturned, however, by Judge Stephen S. Trott of the united states Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
To establish copyright infringement, Data East must prove ownership of a valid copyright and "Copying" by Epyx of the copyrighted work. It is undisputed that Data East is the registered copyright owner of the audio-visual work for each version of "Karate Champ". Thus we need only determine weather Epyx copied "Karate Champ". This sounds simple and straightforward. It is not.
According to Trott, there was no direct evidence that System III, the original creator of International Karate, had acess to the Commodore computer version of Karate Champ. He listed Judge Ingrams 15 similarities and identified them as inherent to the sport karate. According to Trott, "Karate is not susceptible of [sic] a wholly fanciful presentation." (In later years, Mortal Combat, Street Fighter II, and other "completely fanciful" martial arts games built off the Karate Champ formula woulde dominate both the home market and the arcade industry.) In his decision, the Judge stated that the only parts of the game that could be protected by a copyright were the areas in which Data East made creative contributions-namely the scoreboard and the background scenes. These, however, were the areas in which Karate Champ and World Karate Championship were most different.
Based apon these two features, a discerning 17.5-year-old boy could not regard the works as substantially similar. Accordingly, Data East's copyright was not infringed on thid basis either.
Trott found in favor of Epyx and reversed Ingram's decision. Epyx was alowed to market World Karate Championship. This decision would have a decisive impact on several future decisions, including another case with Data East. In 1993, Capcom released the game Street Fighter II, which became an international arcade sensation. Shortly after the game was released for home systems, Data East released the fighting game called Fighter's History, which had similar combatants and moves. Capcom took Data East to court, claiming infringement, but the courts ruled in Data East's favor.
So, as you can see, they cant sue unless one trademarked product uses the same "Creative Feature" that the pandora does. Theres not much to put A copy right on really, since Linux is open source and anyone can buy the parts creatue there own pandora. The only thing being copyrighted here is the name Pandora, and any special piece of hardware/software that is original.
And yes, WALL OF TXT.
QUOTE
Data East Vs. Epyx
In 1984, Data East released a game titled Karate Champ. Though it was not the first two-player fighting game (The first two player fighting game was Warrior, Released by Cinematronics in 1979),it was the first two-player martial arts tournament game and the progenitor of a genre that in the early 1990s would become extremely popular. In Karate Champ, Players controled a martial artist as he battled Computer-controlled fighters in tornament-style combat. (Karate Champ had two-player simultsneous action as well.) It featured several realistic blocks, kicks and punches and had a large, relatively humen-looking characters. The game was a modest hit in the arcades.
In October 1985, Data East released a home version of Karate Champ for the Commodore 64 computer. One month later, the british company called System III released a similar game Titled
International Karate. When California based Epyx, Inc., licenced the game and released it as World Karate Championship for the Commodore 64 in April 1986, Data East took Epyx to court, claiming that the "Overall appearance, compilation, and sequence of the audio and the visual display of the video game World Karate Championship infringed upon Karate Champ." Data East also claimed that World Karate Championship infringed upon its trademark and trade dress. The case went before Judge William A. Ingram of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California.
Upon looking at both games, Ingram found several areas of similarity to support Data East's Claim:
A. Each game had fourteen moves.
B. Each game has a two-player option.
C. Each game has A one-player option.
D. Each game has forward and backward somersault moves and about-face moves.
E. Each game has a squatting reverse punch wherein the heel is not on the ground.
F. Each game has a upper-lunge punch.
G. Each game has Back Foot sweep.
H. Each game has A jumping sidekick.
I. Each game has A Low Kick.
J. Each game has a walk-backwards position.
K. Each game has changing background scenes.
L. Each game has 30-second countdown rounds.
M. Each game uses one referee.
N. In each game the referee says, "Begin", "Stop", "White", "Red", Which is depicted by a cartoon-style speech balloon.
O. Each game has a provision for 100 points per remaining second.
World Karate Championship borrowed other elements from Karate Champ. Both games featured fighters in eather Red or White Karate gis, and both featured bonus rounds in which players earned extra points by breaking bricks or dodgeing dangers. The court recognized that both games depicted karate tornaments, some duplication was inevitable. Karate in general, and karate tornaments in particular, included standard features such as karate gis, certain moves, and referees. Matches at karate tornaments involve two fighters earning points for karate maneuvers. The fights are scored by referees who award certian points for various moves. In his decision, Judge Ingram also noted that both games were made for the Commodore computer and that various constraints were inherent in the use of that computer. Even granting these constraints, the judge found too many similarities to ignore.
The district court found that exept for the graphic quality of Epyx's expressions, part of the scoreboard, the referee's physical appearance, and minor particulars in the "bonus phases", Data East's and Epyx's games are qualitatively identical.
Based on these foindings, Judge Ingram ordered Epyx to recall World Karate Championship and
International Karate. His decision was overturned, however, by Judge Stephen S. Trott of the united states Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
To establish copyright infringement, Data East must prove ownership of a valid copyright and "Copying" by Epyx of the copyrighted work. It is undisputed that Data East is the registered copyright owner of the audio-visual work for each version of "Karate Champ". Thus we need only determine weather Epyx copied "Karate Champ". This sounds simple and straightforward. It is not.
According to Trott, there was no direct evidence that System III, the original creator of International Karate, had acess to the Commodore computer version of Karate Champ. He listed Judge Ingrams 15 similarities and identified them as inherent to the sport karate. According to Trott, "Karate is not susceptible of [sic] a wholly fanciful presentation." (In later years, Mortal Combat, Street Fighter II, and other "completely fanciful" martial arts games built off the Karate Champ formula woulde dominate both the home market and the arcade industry.) In his decision, the Judge stated that the only parts of the game that could be protected by a copyright were the areas in which Data East made creative contributions-namely the scoreboard and the background scenes. These, however, were the areas in which Karate Champ and World Karate Championship were most different.
Based apon these two features, a discerning 17.5-year-old boy could not regard the works as substantially similar. Accordingly, Data East's copyright was not infringed on thid basis either.
Trott found in favor of Epyx and reversed Ingram's decision. Epyx was alowed to market World Karate Championship. This decision would have a decisive impact on several future decisions, including another case with Data East. In 1993, Capcom released the game Street Fighter II, which became an international arcade sensation. Shortly after the game was released for home systems, Data East released the fighting game called Fighter's History, which had similar combatants and moves. Capcom took Data East to court, claiming infringement, but the courts ruled in Data East's favor.
So, as you can see, they cant sue unless one trademarked product uses the same "Creative Feature" that the pandora does. Theres not much to put A copy right on really, since Linux is open source and anyone can buy the parts creatue there own pandora. The only thing being copyrighted here is the name Pandora, and any special piece of hardware/software that is original.
And yes, WALL OF TXT.
quote
dwarf shortage
OMFG, sorry MaGaIn, but you just got doneEvilDragon said:
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DavidBeoulve
GP2X by EvilDragon OC's to 280-300MHz
EvilDragon said:
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rokdcasbah
got me a date with botticelli's niece
i think the pandora will be able to compete with the gp2x. or at least, i don't like the initial argument about price. here's why: the '2x is a niche product. people actually sought it out, and bought it based on reviews & word of mouth. some of the sales came from the good "legacy" of the gp32, but certainly not all.
people look at price more when the item is a commodity. this is more of a unique thing and the people that want it would be hard-pressed to find a similar device. plus, we're talking gadget lovers. the iphone debuted at $600 (which does not include the cost of cellular service) and it outsold other smartphones when it debuted. in fact, people only complained when the price went down.
i'm not saying high price hasn't led to a game console being passed over in the past (or present), but keep in mind the scale of production for the pandora, as well as the fact that it's probably being priced to turn a profit.
and it may not sell as well as the gp2x sold. or it may sell better. we won't know till it's all over. price will be a factor, but i doubt it will make or break things.
people look at price more when the item is a commodity. this is more of a unique thing and the people that want it would be hard-pressed to find a similar device. plus, we're talking gadget lovers. the iphone debuted at $600 (which does not include the cost of cellular service) and it outsold other smartphones when it debuted. in fact, people only complained when the price went down.
i'm not saying high price hasn't led to a game console being passed over in the past (or present), but keep in mind the scale of production for the pandora, as well as the fact that it's probably being priced to turn a profit.
and it may not sell as well as the gp2x sold. or it may sell better. we won't know till it's all over. price will be a factor, but i doubt it will make or break things.
Squidge
Certified Guru
I'd say the Pandora looks sufficiently different from the DS (if it had two screens, no analogs and no keyboard there might be more of a case).Turnip said:
Also, it will not play N64 games out of the box, it will require third party software for that.
The EEE PC would also emulate a N64 with third party software support, and is also a similar clamshell design.
You can't sue someone because there product is capable of emulating one of there systems, only if it does it "out of the box".
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Nova
Is that a Caanoo in your pocket or are you just ha
pandora said:OMFG, sorry MaGaIn, but you just got doneEvilDragon said:
Hand over your badge, MaGain!
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