Kickstarter (or similar) campaign for software developers?

[cuetzpalin]

Several times it has been suggested to make a Kickstarter campaign aimed at making the Pandora successor a reality.

However, I was just thinking it would be better to first make a campaign for funding software developers... The money could go to improve optimization of existing emus, to port new emus or even to create new ones; and, obviously, for other kinds of software development too.

As important as having good hardware is to have good software, and although I know we already have an impressive ammount of software for the Pandora, improvement of emulator performance is never a bad thing, and ultimately it could pave the way for the Pandora successor too, as it would have *better* emus than any other portable device by then.

I know the Pandora is not just about emus, but we all know it's an important part of its uniqueness.

What do you think?

 

[renegadechic]

I think the primary difficulty of this is that throwing money at a project is all well and good, but ultimately, the likelihood and degree of performance improvement is always going to depend firstly on the hardware you are emulating on and then the device you are emulating. Why isn't Sega Saturn emulation more advanced than it is? Because it is a notoriously difficult system to emulate, for any device. It is a similar situation with Dreamcast emulation. Are we likely to get PS2 emulation or gamecube emulation on the Pandora? No, it just doesn't have the grunt to run the whole of one of those consoles on the Pandora.

If people aren't actively working on something then maybe financial incentive would help but I strongly doubt that money is most people's motivation for working on an emulator. Additionally, many emulators are ports of other peoples work, collaborations or something else with a lot of open source code and that makes all those things difficult to really raise money for.

 

[thatgui]

I'm currently wondering why there is no kickstarter campaign for defeating starvation or the greenhouse effect. Kickstarter seems to be the solution for everything nowadays probably also for problems that don't even exist yet.

@cuetzpalin

But on serious note, I doubt that a kickstarter campaign would be of any help here- at least not in the current situation with a lot of people still waiting for their Pandora.

First do you have anything specific in mind? I doubt that you can make a kickstarter without a specific goal, so it would already be hard to find a "common" goal everyone is willing to spend money on:

An already very limited audience (I doubt that anyone else than Pandora users would back), will be cut down to those who support the goal, which in turn will be additionally limited due to the fact that not everybody has a credit card or is willing to "loose" money in the process to third party companies (kickstarter, payment services).

I would rather suggestn making an additional "software fund" after most of the preorders are fullfilled.

I would also be more interested what qualifications have to be met to issue a Gsoc entry/request ? Maybe that way .next - development could be pushed foward?

 

[ExquisiteCorpse]

Probably a better thing to do is organise more competitions which plays better to the OP community than a plain kickstarter where to be honest for the hours put in it's a very small return (if they were to take dev jobs on the side) so people aren't really doing it for the money. 

I would like to see another platformer competition. 

 

[ekianjo]

People really have a lot of issues understanding what Kickstarter is for. Kickstarter is for projects that require significant upfront investment to become a reality. Most of the time, software development has zero upfront costs and it's mainly about spending time and lots of work on it. Making physical things takes usually much more cash and needs actual material and production means. Video games development also falls in that category since it is usually a very elaborate piece of software combined with visual elements which cost significant time and money to make. 

On top of that, Kickstarter works for projects that can be leveraged by LARGE communities. Lets face it. The active Pandora users community is way too small to raise a significant amount of money, and when you give money it's either fair enough for the work you did (i.e. comparable to actual wages for the same type of work) or its insulting because its too low. Its better NOT to give money than to give some, most of the time. And most developers on Pandora are clearly not doing it for money.

 

[Kumaki]

My own thought is that a Kickstarter campaign of a lot of money would result in everyone trying to grab a piece of that money, resulting in multiple works of the same emu, and maybe not even all that great quality, either...as everyone would be rushing to get their done, and get their part of the money.

Money is a motivator ONLY when it is also tied to quality and performance. How often does the standard office employee do a better job just because they got bumped up a quarter an hour?

See, now, for example, the work I do, with my own company, is contract work. I get paid based on a percentage of what my client actually collects. Therefore, I am motivated to do the best job possuble for him, thus getting the most money for him - and by extension, for myself.

Of course, I am motivated by other than money, too - in fact, my proimary motivation is simply to do the best job I can so that my clients will speak well of me. This, in the end, usually leads to more business.

My point?

Those who do really well at making good games and emus...who are then spoken of well...have a reputation they are motivated to keep. I don't know how the programmer's mind works...since I can't really program - at least not for Pandy - but I know maintaining my reputation is a major motivator for me in my work. And since I can only program in PHP...it's no use for Pandy.

 

[Link]

On top of that, Kickstarter works for projects that can be leveraged by LARGE communities. Lets face it. The active Pandora users community is way too small to raise a significant amount of money, and when you give money it's either fair enough for the work you did (i.e. comparable to actual wages for the same type of work) or its insulting because its too low. Its better NOT to give money than to give some, most of the time. And most developers on Pandora are clearly not doing it for money.

Just wondering where you were in 2008? 

I think if a platform like Kickstarter existed at the time, this community would have appeared huge raising $1Million in 4 Days. 

I also disagree with your giving of money rational.  It's not the amount that matters, it is the gratitude.   

 

[cuetzpalin]

Guys, there's no need to be condescending here. I didn't knew there were so many crowdfunding/marketing experts in these boards.

To begin, if we were to be so cynical (anal) about everything, the Pandora wouldn't even exist... right?

I mentioned Kickstarter because it's the one I see mentioned the most in here, but if you read again, the title of my post is "Kickstarter (or similar)".

My point here is simple: If we want a Pandora successor to happen: let's not only think of the hardware... Software is key to draw interest from a larger audience. Nothing more, nothing less.

I came up with the idea after reading a post by Exophase on what was needed to get X system to be emullated in the Pandora: Many hours of work.

So I thought: what if programmers such as him, Notaz and others in the community could take some months off from their regular jobs to work full-time on the Pandora, without worrying to pay the bills?

Now, I'm not saying this is the only way to get shit done, nor the solution to all the pandora problems. Don't put words in my mouth and simmer down.

 

[sebt3]

So I thought: what if programmers such as him, Notaz and others in the community could take some months off from their regular jobs to work full-time on the Pandora, without worrying to pay the bills?

Do you realize that peeps like Exo probably do something like 4000$/month for a living or even more. Do you realy think the community can sustain that kind of revenu stream for months ongoing ?Do you realy expect any dev around to quit their stable and nice actual job to work for a community he cannot tust to be able to pay him more than 2 months in a row ?

 

[mcobit]

Nice new use of Two Months

 

[TrashyMG]

So I thought: what if programmers such as him, Notaz and others in the community could take some months off from their regular jobs to work full-time on the Pandora, without worrying to pay the bills?

Do you realize that peeps like Exo probably do something like 4000$/month for a living or even more. Do you realy think the community can sustain that kind of revenu stream for months ongoing ?
Do you realy expect any dev around to quit their stable and nice actual job to work for a community he cannot tust to be able to pay him more than 2 months in a row ?

I need to work where Exophase is working.

 

[sebt3]

I need to work where Exophase is working.

No :all you need to is show off the kind of abilities he can show (aka write something as good and famous as gpsp)

 

[Kumaki]

Guys, there's no need to be condescending here. I didn't knew there were so many crowdfunding/marketing experts in these boards.

To begin, if we were to be so cynical (anal) about everything, the Pandora wouldn't even exist... right?

I mentioned Kickstarter because it's the one I see mentioned the most in here, but if you read again, the title of my post is "Kickstarter (or similar)".

My point here is simple: If we want a Pandora successor to happen: let's not only think of the hardware... Software is key to draw interest from a larger audience. Nothing more, nothing less.

I came up with the idea after reading a post by Exophase on what was needed to get X system to be emullated in the Pandora: Many hours of work.

So I thought: what if programmers such as him, Notaz and others in the community could take some months off from their regular jobs to work full-time on the Pandora, without worrying to pay the bills?

Now, I'm not saying this is the only way to get shit done, nor the solution to all the pandora problems. Don't put words in my mouth and simmer down.

Who chooses which programmers get to get in on the money and quit their day jobs?

So I thought: what if programmers such as him, Notaz and others in the community could take some months off from their regular jobs to work full-time on the Pandora, without worrying to pay the bills?

Do you realize that peeps like Exo probably do something like 4000$/month for a living or even more. Do you realy think the community can sustain that kind of revenu stream for months ongoing ?Do you realy expect any dev around to quit their stable and nice actual job to work for a community he cannot tust to be able to pay him more than 2 months in a row ?

I need to work where Exophase is working.

I made close to that this month, myself, doing medical billing and coding. About $250 short. But that is also with none of the actual bills paid.

 

[cuetzpalin]

So I thought: what if programmers such as him, Notaz and others in the community could take some months off from their regular jobs to work full-time on the Pandora, without worrying to pay the bills?

Do you realize that peeps like Exo probably do something like 4000$/month for a living or even more. Do you realy think the community can sustain that kind of revenu stream for months ongoing ?
Do you realy expect any dev around to quit their stable and nice actual job to work for a community he cannot tust to be able to pay him more than 2 months in a row ?

Do you realize I didn't say "quit"?

 

[Neelix]

Except that in most cases taking "some months off" is not going to go down well with ones employer.

- Neelix

 

[ekianjo]

On top of that, Kickstarter works for projects that can be leveraged by LARGE communities. Lets face it. The active Pandora users community is way too small to raise a significant amount of money, and when you give money it's either fair enough for the work you did (i.e. comparable to actual wages for the same type of work) or its insulting because its too low. Its better NOT to give money than to give some, most of the time. And most developers on Pandora are clearly not doing it for money.

Just wondering where you were in 2008? 

I think if a platform like Kickstarter existed at the time, this community would have appeared huge raising $1Million in 4 Days. 

I also disagree with your giving of money rational.  It's not the amount that matters, it is the gratitude.   

We are talking about different things here. Selling a new system is open to many potential clients (see the Ouya). If it were for the Pandora2 it would probably be relatively easy to gather funds as well.

But doing a kickstarter for software projects based on a super tiny hardware market like a Pandora will not result in a lot of support, and this is what this topic is about. 

About the money incentive, there have been multiple psychological studies showing that when you get less money that what you think your job is worth, most people will react very negatively VS not being paid at all for it. I am merely referring to what is widely known of human psychology. 

 

[ekianjo]

So I thought: what if programmers such as him, Notaz and others in the community could take some months off from their regular jobs to work full-time on the Pandora, without worrying to pay the bills?

Do you realize that peeps like Exo probably do something like 4000$/month for a living or even more. Do you realy think the community can sustain that kind of revenu stream for months ongoing ?
Do you realy expect any dev around to quit their stable and nice actual job to work for a community he cannot tust to be able to pay him more than 2 months in a row ?

I need to work where Exophase is working.

Just as sebt3 said, Exophase and people like him are obviously very specialized and therefore it makes them scarce on the market. And it raises their "value". 

 

[Link]

About the money incentive, there have been multiple psychological studies showing that when you get less money that what you think your job is worth, most people will react very negatively VS not being paid at all for it. I am merely referring to what is widely known of human psychology. 

Human psychology, thanks man.  Really, I'm sure that is what every open source developer is thinking when they are putting software out there.  It is all subjective, why then does Linux bring in more than any other platform when it comes to things like https://www.humblebundle.com/

I think human psychology changes depending on the elements of the political economy. 

 

[ekianjo]

About the money incentive, there have been multiple psychological studies showing that when you get less money that what you think your job is worth, most people will react very negatively VS not being paid at all for it. I am merely referring to what is widely known of human psychology. 

Human psychology, thanks man.  Really, I'm sure that is what every open source developer is thinking when they are putting software out there.  It is all subjective, why then does Linux bring in more than any other platform when it comes to things like https://www.humblebundle.com/

First, Linux almost NEVER brings more than any other platform in the humble bundles - but I guess you refer to the "average" value of each linux offer. On the whole the Linux payments for the Humble Bundles are usually inferior to the total Mac payments. 

Open source developers are usually not paid for the initial work they do - I do not see how it goes against what I said just before. On the contrary, open source development is a good example where money is NOT a motivator. 

 

[Link]

OK so if it is not a motivator, what makes you the judge on the value of a donation?  This is what I don't get, and I really don't see an open source developer being upset over a $5 donation vs $50 vs $500.  You're telling people to not donate because it isn't worthy is my biggest gripe here.  It comes off as elitist.  Especially as we are actively fundraising here with amounts being posted of what people donate.

Regarding the Humble Bundle, yes, the Linux average.  Of course it doesn't net as much as it isn't as widely used. 

In terms of Kickstarter, money is the motivator for the project creator to get the job done.  In terms of those backing the project, money isn't as much of a motivator because they are willing to take a risk to get a product or idea first.  "Shut up and take my money" is what some think of ideas they want to support.

I look at how generous this community is with helping ED get units out to preorders.  Then think of something like Dreamcast on the Pandora.  Perhaps a coder is reading this thread thinking about putting up a Kickstarter as was done for N64 for the Ouya IIRC.  Maybe someone out of work for a month or two, that has the skills and abilities to pull it off, especially with the support of current developers assistance as I'm sure you know. 

I see people start Kickstarters all the time with too high of a Goal, then fail miserably  Then there are success stories of those who start with a goal of under $10K and crush it with 1000%+ funding. 

I think that human psychology books have not caught up with the days of crowdfunding.