Instruction Manuel

[hobbyman II]

seriously? a manual? are you sure you are buying what you think you are buying?

as for "Linux noobs", I sense your fear but don`t understand it, what do you expect?, command lines and cryptic syntax?, hexadecimal system messages?, reinstalls for each application?, special passwords?, text screens everywhere?

this is 2009, Linux has a GUI (well...several actually, you can choose, but the default will do for most people), install and config wizards, auto driver config, and this version will be configured for the Pandora, so you will have all the correct drivers etc, you are worrying about nothing.

there's a reason Linuxoids hate MS so much, and the number of people misled by their F.U.D campaigns is at the top of the list, technically, Linux is more sophisticated, stable, capable and modern, has more functionality, and a range of desktop features that leave Vista in the dust, not to mention the rapidly growing range of software available for free under Linux, it`s all good stuff,forget all the lies about complexity and incompatibility, Linux will suit you just fine, after a few weeks of Linux use on the Pandora, you`ll be looking at your desktop and thinking "hmmm..no need for AV, instant security updates, stable, secure, free ...... bye bye [Vista][XP][Win7]"
....

 

[Gricey]

It's a very clever decision to use Linux. First of all, you can do pretty much anything with it. Second of all, it has great community support. A community has been built round this device as it is, so the support will come from there. I use Linux as part of my job (I'm a systems engineer) and have been messing with it since 1999-2000 at a pinch. As I'm new to the community I'm happy to contribute by helping people with their Linux woes, no matter how trivial. I've also worked in a technical customer forum which means I am quite good at explaining complicated things in a way people new to the subject can understand.

- Gricey

 

[matzesu]

On my Manual is standing in green letters "your a noob?; "dont panic" :rolleyes:

 

[tristan.clark]

seriously? a manual? are you sure you are buying what you think you are buying?

as for "Linux noobs", I sense your fear but don`t understand it, what do you expect?, command lines and cryptic syntax?, hexadecimal system messages?, reinstalls for each application?, special passwords?, text screens everywhere?

this is 2009, Linux has a GUI (well...several actually, you can choose, but the default will do for most people), install and config wizards, auto driver config, and this version will be configured for the Pandora, so you will have all the correct drivers etc, you are worrying about nothing.

there's a reason Linuxoids hate MS so much, and the number of people misled by their F.U.D campaigns is at the top of the list, technically, Linux is more sophisticated, stable, capable and modern, has more functionality, and a range of desktop features that leave Vista in the dust, not to mention the rapidly growing range of software available for free under Linux, it`s all good stuff,forget all the lies about complexity and incompatibility, Linux will suit you just fine, after a few weeks of Linux use on the Pandora, you`ll be looking at your desktop and thinking "hmmm..no need for AV, instant security updates, stable, secure, free ...... bye bye [Vista][XP][Win7]"
....

Converted to Linux myself just over a year ago. I've not had to reinstall it, or any of the problems I kept getting again and again with Windows. I'm NOT buying software just to keep it working. In the main its been great. Linux doesn't throw its toys out of the pram or slow down like windows does. But there are sometimes when it is a chore to fix a problem or tweak something, partly from my lack of experience certainly, partly because Linux is not alway as intuitive as it could be.

Linux is great and using something like Win4Lin I can still run WinXP for those apps that I can't find an alternative for, but it still has a little way to go to make itself main stream.

 

[hobbyman II]

that might be true if you like to poke about and tweak stuff (going by your mention of win4lin....what's wrong with WINE? ), but for the average user Linux is mostly Plug and Play, just using Linux day to day I haven't had any issues other than alarmclock losing its ability to make sound, and all I had to do for that was remove and re-install, it even remembered my old settings for me,once people get used to the "apt" or "add/remove" AppStore(tm) then its all suddenly so easy, yep! the biggest sticking point people new to Linux have is installing software, they try to download and install the developer files or from application websites a`la Windows, not realising Linux has an automated App-Store built in, full of approved and checked software, once people realise they just have to click applications/add-remove (or whatever their distro uses) then their problems fade away, face it, most people just need to do all the normal stuff, surf web, photos, video, sound, office etc, and even basic installs like Puppy can do that out of the box.

for the Pandora installing is as hard as downloading from the archive onto a SD card, that's it, nothing to learn beyond how to download, once its on the SD card the Pandora will find it and add it to your menu, not even as hard as using other companies "stores", and for those that like/must have- a dedicated interface, well, they are being worked on already.

PS: then again, ask a Windows user how to use the registry, 99 out of 100 people won`t even touch it, it`s a sure fire way to hose your system if you aren't knowledgeable , saying Linux can be difficult overlooks the simple fact that Windows is often impenetrable, Soundblaster not working under Vista?, tough, buy a new card, same card works fine under Linux (some cards wound up working TOO well) lol

 

[Squidge]

I'd say the manual provided with the device will tell you thing like opening the case (to view the LCD, not where the screws are located), how to turn the thing on, inserting/removing sd cards, replacing the battery, basic troubleshooting, how to clean the device, and then basic do's and dont's such as do not place in any liquid or keep the device in a room with a very high humidity, keep out of long term sun rays, don't allow your baby or dog to eat the device or stylus, don't operate where the temperature exceeds 65 degrees C, etc.

I don't expect the manual to teach you how to program, or how to use Linux. There are far better resources for that kind of thing.

 

[Poem58]

By stupid questions from Linux noobs I mean people like myself who are more then capable on a PC and have yet had Linux experience and plan to "get under the hood" if you will. heck, when you guys mention git repositories and compiling for Arm and other makes no sense to me things, I want to know about, my point is that somewhere along the line someone like me is going to ask a question that I don't get but is clearly obvious to you. This forum has a tendency to sometimes get more than sarcastic about what some conceive as stupid questions. Like I've posted before, I almost left the board and pulled my order after being admonished about how stupid my Video out cable question was, how I was not able to search properly and how S-Video ONLY meant S-Video ONLY, only to find those that lectured to me were wrong and it WAS S-Video AND Composite. I figure How could I possible communicate with people who jump at you like this. But it only happened that once, I guess I only asked 1 stupid question or have just been lucky. But with more than one way to install files, the fact that there can be command line usage unlike our MS dominated Windows experiences, there's lots to be unsure about. After all it's a different operating system, clearly a GUI cannot make them so alike that you never have any questions/issues.

That's all I mean by I hope the knowledgeable will understand if we happen to ask a stupid question, LOL. I know this isn't the same as installing it on my laptop, but I share my laptop with my wife and she let me get the Pandora (let me?, yeah if you are married, she "let me") So I will NOT be running anything else on the laptop. So it's all I will have to explore linux with. Limited as it may be.

 

[Sphinxter]

All these crys for help and yet local linux user group memberships are dwindling. Join your local LUG, they're dying to answer all your questions and support you.

 

[Etinin]

People which REALLY need a manual shouldn't be purchasing a Pandora in the first place. It's not like you will need to enter evil commands or go through a cryptic interface in order to do anything.
Besides, it's very likely someone will make some kind of manual and howtos in order to help newbies.

 

[WizardStan]

I'd say the manual provided with the device will tell you thing like opening the case (to view the LCD, not where the screws are located), how to turn the thing on, inserting/removing sd cards, replacing the battery, basic troubleshooting, how to clean the device, and then basic do's and dont's such as do not place in any liquid or keep the device in a room with a very high humidity, keep out of long term sun rays, don't allow your baby or dog to eat the device or stylus, don't operate where the temperature exceeds 65 degrees C, etc.

I don't expect the manual to teach you how to program, or how to use Linux. There are far better resources for that kind of thing.

Also a description of all the pre-installed applications, and a table of suggested downloads. What's the name of the package that'll give you MP3, MPEG2, WMV, ect playback? Oh look, the manual says it right here, at the top of the suggested downloads. And so on and so forth. A step by step guide on how to connect to a wireless network would definitely be a plus: how can you look up stuff online when you can't figure out exactly which icon you click to bring up the wireless config gui (assuming we have one by then).
Most people are thinking "I don't need something to tell me how to turn on my device" and forgetting that a manual can contain a lot more information, some of which really is useful to have. Instead of saying "I don't need a manual to tell me how to do X" try to think of "I would like a manual that told me about Y". Then you take the most appropriate Ys, throw in a few Xs (because it never hurts to be thorough), print it off in a book, and throw it in the box.

 

[trendy]

seriously? a manual? are you sure you are buying what you think you are buying?

as for "Linux noobs", I sense your fear but don`t understand it, what do you expect?, command lines and cryptic syntax?, hexadecimal system messages?, reinstalls for each application?, special passwords?, text screens everywhere?

this is 2009, Linux has a GUI (well...several actually, you can choose, but the default will do for most people), install and config wizards, auto driver config, and this version will be configured for the Pandora, so you will have all the correct drivers etc, you are worrying about nothing.

there's a reason Linuxoids hate MS so much, and the number of people misled by their F.U.D campaigns is at the top of the list, technically, Linux is more sophisticated, stable, capable and modern, has more functionality, and a range of desktop features that leave Vista in the dust, not to mention the rapidly growing range of software available for free under Linux, it`s all good stuff,forget all the lies about complexity and incompatibility, Linux will suit you just fine, after a few weeks of Linux use on the Pandora, you`ll be looking at your desktop and thinking "hmmm..no need for AV, instant security updates, stable, secure, free ...... bye bye [Vista][XP][Win7]"
....

Who cares about UI state when they want to do something? I'm pretty certain linux will never have a GUI, who wants that in a kernel?
I still find XP the best platform to get work done. The professional software support on other platforms is a pain, assuming it can be done.
There are professional programs for Linux but their feature set isn't the minimum needed and when they add features they add eye-candy features. Also modular design that's like running hundreds of batches when you do something that are causing unacceptable delays. Add lock-in if you want to resume your work without additional work hours. There isn't enough respect to standards. When the "I want my own format" will stop, people that only care about getting work done will come.

The pro software is crap. A lot of limitations are bad coding/design and people get too personal. I do not intend to spend most of the time testing or coding. lime most, I'd change to another OS anytime if it wouldn't come with too many usability problems. Only Apple really cares about usability, but they're unsatisfactory in fields other than creativity work.
There's no real security on platforms that don't have mandatory standards and means to detect the uncompliant.

The home user stuff it's only a matter of taste. I disliked it because wasn't optimized enough and I had to do unnecessary movement last time I tried it. I like eye-candy to be to the limit it doesn't affect my work/enjoyment.

I have to check wine again if it's acceptable for me to be on some linux-based OS.


Instruction manuals aren't for consumers, they're only for specialized tasks and are usually backed by industry standards compliance papers.
A quick start guide will probably be provided (ports, environment operability, accesories). I don't think they can sell them without in Europe.
A complete manual will be only online. I'm certain Craigix will say something about keeping cost down, how many want it anyway as a hardcover? It would be too expensive in such a low number. And do you really want a possible unnecessary delay?

I doubt they'll make a optional hardcover of the technical manual which most people wouldn't buy or read.

People which REALLY need a manual shouldn't be purchasing a Pandora in the first place. It's not like you will need to enter evil commands or go through a cryptic interface in order to do anything.
Besides, it's very likely someone will make some kind of manual and howtos in order to help newbies.

There will be an official manual. Also, probably, unofficial translations of it.
I hope they'll do something with the unofficial wiki too at a later point.

 

[droneb]

By stupid questions from Linux noobs I mean people like myself who are more then capable on a PC and have yet had Linux experience and plan to "get under the hood" if you will. heck, when you guys mention git repositories and compiling for Arm and other makes no sense to me things, I want to know about, my point is that somewhere along the line someone like me is going to ask a question that I don't get but is clearly obvious to you. This forum has a tendency to sometimes get more than sarcastic about what some conceive as stupid questions. Like I've posted before, I almost left the board and pulled my order after being admonished about how stupid my Video out cable question was, how I was not able to search properly and how S-Video ONLY meant S-Video ONLY, only to find those that lectured to me were wrong and it WAS S-Video AND Composite. I figure How could I possible communicate with people who jump at you like this. But it only happened that once, I guess I only asked 1 stupid question or have just been lucky. But with more than one way to install files, the fact that there can be command line usage unlike our MS dominated Windows experiences, there's lots to be unsure about. After all it's a different operating system, clearly a GUI cannot make them so alike that you never have any questions/issues.

That's all I mean by I hope the knowledgeable will understand if we happen to ask a stupid question, LOL. I know this isn't the same as installing it on my laptop, but I share my laptop with my wife and she let me get the Pandora (let me?, yeah if you are married, she "let me") So I will NOT be running anything else on the laptop. So it's all I will have to explore linux with. Limited as it may be.

XD, I know what you mean, i just hate the jumpy reactions on this forum, its kind of a fever like when talking about politics. (MS vs Tux)(IE vs Moz vs Chr)
its something we will have to deal with all the "everyone should use X" and "i cant imagine someone asking that" im short of patience, but hey try to teach someone that doesnt even know how to use the computer mouse that day, maybe the linux users might calm down a bit (for reference I do use both Windows and Linux, and none is better nor worse, both have flaws and both have benefits, so depending of the needs i just switch them over win 7 and ubuntu together make a quickie team (in my tests and coming up OS X) (if you dont like it, virtualize!!!). (and i wont neither fight about flavors).

Back to topic.

a manual is something that is a good practice, people shouldnt jump and say "if you need a manual you shouldnt be buying this", im affraid thats no way a truth, i do read em even if i already know how to use a system, thats because no matter how much knowledge every machine has (or should have) special functions habilities specs datasheet, etc. a good product always has a manual i can bet say every one around knows how to use a cellphone, yet how many of you knows all the function it has, all the replacements/spares/batt/connectors it requires in case of...

as for it, if OP Team plans to deploy a manual either phisical or digital (preferably in CD/DVD not online) i can offer help translating into Spanish (neutral) and for free (just clearing any doubt).
(or if they drop one of these quickly in my house ill even writte a full manual for it ).

 

[Squidge]

Also a description of all the pre-installed applications, and a table of suggested downloads. What's the name of the package that'll give you MP3, MPEG2, WMV, ect playback? Oh look, the manual says it right here, at the top of the suggested downloads. And so on and so forth. A step by step guide on how to connect to a wireless network would definitely be a plus: how can you look up stuff online when you can't figure out exactly which icon you click to bring up the wireless config gui (assuming we have one by then).

It would be daft to include suggested downloads, as theres a good chance those downloads would be obsolete by the time you got the manual, and would also mean constantly updating the manual, throwing old ones away, etc. Also, they can't tell you to install package X from url Y to get MP3 as that would be a clear violation of license agreements. Software running on the system would have its own readme or instruction manual in whatever format preinstalled as context help (ie, not in the manual, but accessible with the system itself).

 

[hobbyman II]

@ "trendy" ......Balmer?...is that you?



chair flies past .................




ah!, guess it is

 

[WizardStan]

It would be daft to include suggested downloads, as theres a good chance those downloads would be obsolete by the time you got the manual, and would also mean constantly updating the manual, throwing old ones away, etc. Also, they can't tell you to install package X from url Y to get MP3 as that would be a clear violation of license agreements. Software running on the system would have its own readme or instruction manual in whatever format preinstalled as context help (ie, not in the manual, but accessible with the system itself).

The Ubuntu Restricted extras package is part of every install guide I've ever seen for Ubuntu for the last untold years. It doesn't have to give a URL, it just has to say "download the Pandora Restricted extras package". GIMP has been pretty much THE recommended image editor for years as well. When a tool works well enough to garner "recommended" status, it doesn't tend to go away in a matter of months. It's likely that Abiword will be preinstalled, but I doubt Open Office will be, so put Open Office on the recommended list as a more advanced word processor over Abiword.
And I'm not suggesting a manual to tell you how to use preinstalled software: like you say, they'll have their own manuals. It should, at least then, give a brief description of what each installed app is. Some people don't mind clicking random apps to see what they are, others prefer to know what they're starting before they do so**. "GPart? What the heck is that? Oh look, now my system is frozen for the next minute while it scans all my hard drives. And I don't even need to use this."


**Fine, yes, you can Google for the name. A dead tree version which points exactly where everything is is still superior, in my opinion

 

[Squidge]

What you are saying makes sense, it just needs to be made sure that unlicensed codecs such as MP3 don't seem to be endorsed by the manufacturer, and placing a note in the manual saying things like "Install this app from here" sounds like they would be doing exactly that even if they didn't provide the "here" part.

 

[Wheels]

People which REALLY need a manual shouldn't be purchasing a Pandora in the first place.

Somehow I don't think that attitude is going to help raise awareness of the Pandora.

A simple owner's manual like the sort that comes with other handhelds or media players is probably a good idea. Something that tells people where to look to find the equalizer settings, tips about what kind of AC-DC adapter to use if you don't have a USB port handy, tells them not to just yank an SD card out of the slot with it's still being used, seizure warnings for epileptics who enjoy staring at simulated prisms, etc. etc. Maybe throw in a recipe for Pandora Logo Shaped Pretzels or something.

 

[WizardStan]

What you are saying makes sense, it just needs to be made sure that unlicensed codecs such as MP3 don't seem to be endorsed by the manufacturer, and placing a note in the manual saying things like "Install this app from here" sounds like they would be doing exactly that even if they didn't provide the "here" part.

Ah, yes. That is a very valid point I had completely glossed over, isn't it? It's one thing to give a media device that needs an update to play MP3s, and another to not even make the user aware that such a thing is possible. Knowing that you need to install restricted codecs in order to gain MP3 playback isn't something a lot of users will be expecting. Many are coming from Windows environments where things like MP3 just works because Microsoft (or Winamp, or whomever) have paid the licensing fee. I wonder if there's a way around it, to tell people "hey, you need this stuff, but we're not allowed to tell you that you need this stuff."

 

[Wheels]

I wonder if there's a way around it, to tell people "hey, you need this stuff, but we're not allowed to tell you that you need this stuff."

"Okay...listen closely: I'd like to help you, but I can't. I'd like to tell you to take a copy of your policy to Norma Wilcox on - Norma Wilcox, W-I-L-C-O-X, on the 3rd floor, but I can't. I also do not advise you to fill out a WS-2574 form with our legal department on the 2nd floor. I would not expect someone to get back to you quickly to resolve the matter. I'd like to help, but there's nothing I can do."

 

[Username]

"Okay...listen closely: I'd like to help you, but I can't. I'd like to tell you to take a copy of your policy to Norma Wilcox on - Norma Wilcox, W-I-L-C-O-X, on the 3rd floor, but I can't. I also do not advise you to fill out a WS-2574 form with our legal department on the 2nd floor. I would not expect someone to get back to you quickly to resolve the matter. I'd like to help, but there's nothing I can do."

Please don't quote stupid kids movies in a serious discussion. Maybe if it was a better movie it would be acceptable.