Idea: Amigaanywhere On Openpandora

[Wildstar]

forum telling us all how wonderful it is with absolutely nothing to back it up.

QUOTE
I've seen, read, and heard all sorts of stuff about them. If they don't wan to sell products like the AmigaAnywhere Player, they can have it for download. If they don't want to make money. The SDA that I have, I receive 60% of gross profits and they get 40%. So, if I make a program for sale on their website for $10. If there was 100,000 downloads then $1 Million in proceeds. They receive $400,000 and I get $600,000. They should be happy with a $400,000 income. So what for using their architecture. I don't care, $600,000 is a nice check. Not much different then any other commercial agreement.

The fact is if they REALLY wanted to sell it they'd be doing a hell of a lot more to promote it. Amiga Inc is a proxy company for dealings that are not technology related.

There is no way on earth that anything created with AA has ever, will ever, or could ever generate 1 million sales. You're living in fantasy land. As others have said, it appears to be nothing more than something like SDL which is already supported on Pandora and doesn't require that you pay anybody anything.


It is the content that sells a product NOT the API. You produce a card game written on SDL it won't sell worth shit. Consumers can give a rats rear end about how it is made. There is NOTHING that to stop a programmer using AA (as well as in connection with other API at the SAME time like SDL or others) within AA internal to do anything. ALL the fancy 3D stuff is purely virtual and rasterized onto 2D displays. Even the hottest 2D games are displayed 2D. 3D isjust virtual and the output is still rasterized into 2D. Lightwave3D, Maya and EVERY 3D program for Windows, Linux is all outputing a 3D virtual reality onto a 2D plane. That is why EVERY one of them has a 2D rasterization step immediately before outputing the content to screens because none of ua are using TRUE 3D display. That is only achieved through holographics.

If it displays to a CRT or a LCD it is 2D ultimately.

Want to do 3D, you organize the virtual geometry of the virtual reality into three variables or 3-dimensional array. There are APIs for that, right? Then we use it in conjunction with AA. There is Direct3D for some platforms and other mechanisms so we use it or we add a 3D custom module of our own on top of AA. Add a aa3Dxxxxxxx set of modules or any other user-custom API. or just incorporate some math in the app layer and so on.

In the end, it don't matter. APIs don't sell games - we sold games in the millions without "API"s. People want games, apps, ect. that is good. If it is a corny game written for any API - it won't sell. It isn't an AA limit or anything technological. It is simply because some of the developers just doesn't care to expend the energy and time. Some reject AA purely for boycoting Amiga Inc. not for the technology. I'm no fanboi of Bill McEwen and can give two turds less about. Is AA the best thing out there... no. Is the Amiga 1200 hw the best thing out there? Maybe not under certain criterias that some base 'better'. My point is, who cares about "advantages" of it for Pandora. We weren't making those judgment for UAE? It is limited to classic Amiga with maybe a 680x0 cpu accelerator emulated. Good for Amiga. People develop for it. Money and profit isn't the biggest criteria for classic Amiga coders.

No different then the Commodore 8-Bit community who still programs games for C64.

AA has actually an advantage that it can be used to make games and apps that can make money. If you had the 100s of programmers, graphic artists, ect. that makes the development team then you can produce games that sells millions. Reason, games that sell requires SO much crew because the average gamer expects to see stuff like WoW with 1000 FPS, 1 Trillion Polygons per nanosecond at resolutions of 2560 x 2048 resolution with 48-Bit RGB with 16-Bit Alpha channel and 4 Billion 128 Bit 9.1 Surround Sound and if it doesn't have it, they are disappointed before they ever put the disc in the machine. They been spoiled to ultra-sophisticated games that no single person or even a crew of 5 to 10 developers can hope to ever muster up in 100 years time. If a game doesn't provide that, too many just aren't excited.

Yes, the example maybe a little exaggerated out for illustrative purposes. They just want the 'high' and bragging that they got the "WORLD'S HOTTEST 3D GAME IN REALITY" and only good for maybe 3 to 6 months. Modern computer gaming is just a crazy house, IMHO.

It isn't AA, SDL or any API that sells a game. It is the game itself and invested advertisement of a game. Some of the existing devs for AA games do not have much experience in writing computer games. They have programming experience but not writing and developing games but then a small developer can't expect to put together stuff like WoW - not from grounds up.

They have to sort of... cheat.

 

[Wildstar]

So, the question is, why not simply support it like UAE, AROS, SDL, ect. Just one more app (API).

Who cares about advantages. Alot more can be done with it then had been demonstrated by the current examples.

 

[Pleng]

It is the content that sells a product NOT the API.

Exactly. So for an API to get attention, it needs to provide something to the developers. You have still failed to offer one concrete advantage of using AA. Though you seem to see giving AmigaInc 40% of your profit as some kind of advantage

QUOTE
You produce a card game written on SDL it won't sell worth shit.


What's that got to do with anything. So you could write the same game in AA and it will magically sell MORE than it would have done if it was programmed in SDL?

No. It won't.

I'm not sure about if the SDL license even allows use in commercial projects. But there are plenty of APIs out there that do.

QUOTE
Consumers can give a rats rear end about how it is made. There is NOTHING that to stop a programmer using AA (as well as in connection with other API at the SAME time like SDL or others) within AA internal to do anything. ALL the fancy 3D stuff is purely virtual and rasterized onto 2D displays. Even the hottest 2D games are displayed 2D. 3D isjust virtual and the output is still rasterized into 2D. Lightwave3D, Maya and EVERY 3D program for Windows, Linux is all outputing a 3D virtual reality onto a 2D plane. That is why EVERY one of them has a 2D rasterization step immediately before outputing the content to screens because none of ua are using TRUE 3D display. That is only achieved through holographics.

If it displays to a CRT or a LCD it is 2D ultimately.


Wow. So many words and not a single point...

QUOTE
Want to do 3D, you organize the virtual geometry of the virtual reality into three variables or 3-dimensional array. There are APIs for that, right? Then we use it in conjunction with AA.


So AA can't do 3D? You need to use another API for 3D? So what exactly ARE you using AA for? Just to give yourself a reason to loose 40% of your profit?

QUOTE
My point is, who cares about "advantages" of it for Pandora.


Ok I really shouldn't feed the troll BUT

You come in here offering an 'idea' for the Pandora. An idea which would involve OP getting involved with a notoriously evil company, none the less. And your saying that resources should be plowed into this 'idea' of yours doesn't NEED to offer any advantages?

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No different then the Commodore 8-Bit community who still programs games for C64.


So you're saying that AA is a vastly technically inferior technology?

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AA has actually an advantage that it can be used to make games and apps that can make money.


Find me an AA app that has made any kind of serious money.

QUOTE
If you had the 100s of programmers, graphic artists, ect. that makes the development team then you can produce games that sells millions. Reason, games that sell requires SO much crew because the average gamer expects to see stuff like WoW with 1000 FPS, 1 Trillion Polygons per nanosecond at resolutions of 2560 x 2048 resolution with 48-Bit RGB with 16-Bit Alpha channel and 4 Billion 128 Bit 9.1 Surround Sound and if it doesn't have it, they are disappointed before they ever put the disc in the machine. They been spoiled to ultra-sophisticated games that no single person or even a crew of 5 to 10 developers can hope to ever muster up in 100 years time. If a game doesn't provide that, too many just aren't excited.


I agree with you that games these days are dull. To in depth - both graphically and with the amount of things that you actually have to DO - to be fun anymore. But these are the games that are selling.

But if you want to make simple games there are plenty of tools around to do this. Novashell happens to be my preferred option. It's cross platform, open source, allows you to sell games, and DOESNT require that you give any of your profit away (though I'm sure Seth would appreciate a donation if you did ever make the million dollars you seem to believe is possible with AA). There's also X-Box live and Iphone app store. Both avenues have a genuine infrastructure and a well established market for you to sell your apps. Granted they wont run on Pandora, but if you're aiming to sell millions of copies of your game, Pandora is not the platform to target.

QUOTE
Yes, the example maybe a little exaggerated out for illustrative purposes


That's the problem, it didn't illustrate anything. Other than the fact that AA can't do 3D


Anyway Craig is the head of the OP project and he had this to say on the matter:

QUOTE (Craigix)
I'd not go near Amiga Inc with a ten foot barge pole. They will probably try to sue me for saying that.


Now I've not always agreed with the way Craig conducts business but that's possible the wisest business decision the guy has ever made.

AA is not coming to OP so we won't all be able to make the millions that you seem to believe possible. Luckily though, no chance of A Inc trying to sue OP (don't worry Craig, they only sue people who want to do business with/for then, you're pretty safe!)

Anyway. That's enough troll food for one week. Hope you enjoyed your meal. I don't have anything more to say on the subject.

 

[hobbyman II]

WOW! it`s sort of like a Jehova`s Witness, but unable to respond to reason :lol:

dude! you are the best advert for avoiding this cruddy parasitic* library I have ever seen.

(*parasitic in the sense that it feeds off the memory of a great machine, as though it is in some way kindred to it)

 

[trooper]

Seem`s like an appropriate time to jingle the keys.

***LOCKED***

Trooper

 

[Wildstar]

It is exactly like this:

/.../ In exchange for the rights granted to DISTRIBUTOR herein, DISTRIBUTOR DEVELOPER will pay a royalty equal to Sixty percent (60%) of the Net proceeds /.../

It is also the distributor is responsible for all costs incurred card fees returns, etc..
The minimum amount paid is $ 100. Payment is made within 30 days at each change of quarters.

-----------------------------------------

Quotation from a fellow AA SDA signee who has his SDA at hand.

ED: I think it actually said:

...In exchange for the rights granted to DISTRIBUTOR herein, DISTRIBUTOR will pay DEVELOPER a royalty equal to Sixty percent (60%) of the Net proceeds...

/ED. (Suspect typo error by original quoter.)


The 60%/40% thing is ONLY if Amiga Inc. is authorized as the distributor. Amiga retains only 40% if they are the distributor and any sales proceeds made through them. Now, you may distribute or produce your own titles and sell them directly or through another distributor and not have to pay Amiga Inc. a single dime.

I was in error in my mental note and my SDA is the same way as the other fellow.My copy of the signed SDA is under a stack of paper somewhere.
It is only has to do with distribution of software you make using AmigaAnywhere via Amiga Inc.'s distribution. I call it fair if they do the distribution to keep some of the proceeds. Using their 'store'. You don't have to pay a penny for any sales you make via another distributor or sell directly yourself. So that big negative against AA is not entirely true. Only if they distribute.


BTW: Moderators, please lock this thread. This is only to post a correction and clean up facts and not for discussion. I apologize in advance but I want to leave this topic is correct info and I would have post it in the other threads. If it is possible to move it and append it to a currently closed thread like the most recently closed thread regarding AmigaAnywhere, that would be great.

 

[gaterooze]

I would not be surprised if elsewhere in the SDA it states that AI have an exclusive option to distribute any title made using AA.

 

[Wildstar]

I would not be surprised if elsewhere in the SDA it states that AI have an exclusive option to distribute any title made using AA.

Nope, there was nothing in it for exclusive. The SDA just gives them authority to distribute/sell software that I want sell through them. I have the option to sell directly or through another distributor and not all titles have to be distributed/sold through them.

They did not make it that exclusive in nature and it authorizes me to use the AmigaAnywhere technology. If I want to make a game title, I don't have to go through them on everything. When you start throwing in Amiga logo and other stuff into the packaging and stuff, then you fall into trademark issues and a trademark royalty comes into play.

Amiga Inc. isn't quite like what all the ad hominem, emotion and stuff that you'll find in much of the search results in forums and so much has been posted by many of whom are the same person on multiple forums with multiple user names. If you read closely to the facts, the court documents and stuff - things aren't as clean cut. Also there had been alot of emotion and noise that what you see from a quick glance through googling isn't all true. Number of posts doesn't make it accurate. There is so many opinions and emotion on several key topics and Bill McEwen's commentation and his Open Letter some time back ruffled feathers and those that were emotionally attached to Hyperion got angry and things got polarized.

I know things looks like Amiga Inc. is big bad guy but the truth is neither Amiga Inc. or Hyperion are the good guy/bad here. It is more of a grey area on both sides. It is a legal dispute/settlement and these cases takes so long partly due to the slowness of court cases with low priority.

Amiga Inc. being quiet has not helped their case in public eye. Don't fall into a trap and believing everything you read in the "tabloids".

 

[Pleng]

Amiga Inc. being quiet has not helped their case in public eye. Don't fall into a trap and believing everything you read in the "tabloids".

Like AInc have ever done anything to warrant tabloid interest.

 

[Squidge]

Merging with existing topic.