Idea: Amigaanywhere On Openpandora

[Wildstar]

AmigaAnywhere is a digital environment system designed to run on multiple platforms and there had been running ports of this Digital Environment for ARM & StrongARM cpu based devices.

I believe the cpu of Pandora is an ARM processor.

It has been proven to run on Linux. This has Linux.

AmigaAnywhere is a digital environment infrastructure for applications. If so, it would be great to run this on this device. I hope to see this in a mass production run perhaps by a major manufacturer but the tech being open.

As an individual with AmigaAnywhere SDK 2.0 and holding an SDA with Amiga Inc. - this would be a device worth supporting.

In fact, I would use this digital platform for the various devices including GP32.

It is cool stuff that I see.

 

[r00tw00t]

"digital environment infrastructure for applications"

you lost me there

@rapbidpoobear:

Thanks for the enlightenment. Sounds like a very useful tool if you are a developer.

 

[rabidpoobear]

AmigaAnywhere is a digital environment system designed to run on multiple platforms and there had been running ports of this Digital Environment for ARM & StrongARM cpu based devices.

I believe the cpu of Pandora is an ARM processor.

It has been proven to run on Linux. This has Linux.

AmigaAnywhere is a digital environment infrastructure for applications. If so, it would be great to run this on this device. I hope to see this in a mass production run perhaps by a major manufacturer but the tech being open.

As an individual with AmigaAnywhere SDK 2.0 and holding an SDA with Amiga Inc. - this would be a device worth supporting.

In fact, I would use this digital platform for the various devices including GP32.

It is cool stuff that I see.

sounds like it would work, if they add support for the Pandora hardware to their deployment system.

 

[rabidpoobear]

"digital environment infrastructure for applications"

you lost me there

The basic idea is that it's a thin layer between the OS and the user's application.
That way, for example, I can call AmigaAnywhere.DrawMyScreen() and AmigaAnywhere will translate this into SDL.Blit() or SymbianOS.RefreshScreen() or whatever your specific platform uses for that functionality (note all these function names are obviously made up.)
The advantage this gives is that I can say "AmigaAnywhere, I want to deploy my app to a Nokia E71 today" and it will be able to compile your code to work on the Symbian OS, and then you can say "compile me one for Android" and it will be able to do that, as well, without you having to change your code at all.
It's "middleware" API to ease in porting in the mobile market since there are such diverse systems out there.

Blizzard does the same sort of thing - they have a thin wrapper around OS-specific functionality, so it's extremely simple for them to make their games run on Windows and Mac OS X - just rewrite the wrapper. That's why they don't have problems with having both a Mac and Windows version of World of Warcraft, among others.

 

[Pleng]

AmigaAnywhere has been around in its two guises for, what, 5 years? All that's ever been released is a few low-quality mobile-phone games and a tip calculator. Most any company or individual that's gone into agreement with Amiga Inc has ended up in bitter legal battles, which is something OP can really do without.

I am a fan of the Amiga systems and it's good to see that AROS will be available on the system at some point, but there's clearly no advantage of AA on Pandora.

 

[Wildstar]

AmigaAnywhere has been around in its two guises for, what, 5 years? All that's ever been released is a few low-quality mobile-phone games and a tip calculator. Most any company or individual that's gone into agreement with Amiga Inc has ended up in bitter legal battles, which is something OP can really do without.

I am a fan of the Amiga systems and it's good to see that AROS will be available on the system at some point, but there's clearly no advantage of AA on Pandora.

I've seen many of those but the platform has alot more potential then the limited developers spent the time to develop. It is capable of more serious level of work and capabilities. We just need more quality apps and quality developers.

I wouldn't diss it, though. It has some potential and with some good hw as most devices are now, it would be reasonable to do alot of things. AA on a Pandora hw platform can be similar to what a 600 MHz Amiga with 512 MBytes of Memory can do. Anything Windows can do in 512 MBytes at 600 MHz is loosely within means with AmigaAnywhere. The apps do need a minimum level of resources and that varies from app to app.

The advantage of AA isn't the crappy, slap together stuff that was made on AA. It is what your imagination and will to learn how to program on the platform.
I'm pretty sure in can run with ease on it and supporting it among others just widens the range of apps (existing and future). Computers and game consoles aren't designed just for what exists but what can exist. AA is a platform that allows for portability of software. I don't suggest only it but making it among the supported platforms including AROS and Amiga classic to AmigaOS 4.1 under emulation. If the theoretical AmigaOS 5 ever is made - AA would likely be integrated in some form or fashion.

Don't diss the platform. Just needs a drive for more better apps. It don't need to be fancy bloated apps but good apps. (this includes games, utilities,ect.)

 

[God Ginrai]

AmigaAnywhere has been around in its two guises for, what, 5 years? All that's ever been released is a few low-quality mobile-phone games and a tip calculator. Most any company or individual that's gone into agreement with Amiga Inc has ended up in bitter legal battles, which is something OP can really do without.

I am a fan of the Amiga systems and it's good to see that AROS will be available on the system at some point, but there's clearly no advantage of AA on Pandora.

I've seen many of those but the platform has alot more potential then the limited developers spent the time to develop. It is capable of more serious level of work and capabilities. We just need more quality apps and quality developers.

I wouldn't diss it, though. It has some potential and with some good hw as most devices are now, it would be reasonable to do alot of things. AA on a Pandora hw platform can be similar to what a 600 MHz Amiga with 512 MBytes of Memory can do. Anything Windows can do in 512 MBytes at 600 MHz is loosely within means with AmigaAnywhere. The apps do need a minimum level of resources and that varies from app to app.

The advantage of AA isn't the crappy, slap together stuff that was made on AA. It is what your imagination and will to learn how to program on the platform.
I'm pretty sure in can run with ease on it and supporting it among others just widens the range of apps (existing and future). Computers and game consoles aren't designed just for what exists but what can exist. AA is a platform that allows for portability of software. I don't suggest only it but making it among the supported platforms including AROS and Amiga classic to AmigaOS 4.1 under emulation. If the theoretical AmigaOS 5 ever is made - AA would likely be integrated in some form or fashion.

Don't diss the platform. Just needs a drive for more better apps. It don't need to be fancy bloated apps but good apps. (this includes games, utilities,ect.)


I think he's more concerned that Amiga Inc. is trigger-happy with their lawsuit button.

-God Ginrai

 

[Wildstar]

I think he's more concerned that Amiga Inc. is trigger-happy with their lawsuit button.

-God Ginrai

Get agreement with Amiga Inc. Don't pirate. Simple as that. They are no different then any other company in that regards.
They got money invested in it and they don't want pirating. They are probably willing to work along. Another platform in which they can provide a measure their middle-ware.

Respect that and there be no issue. As a matter of fact, any "Linux" port of the AmigaAnywhere Player should work with Pandora perhaps right of the bat with little to no hitch.

 

[Pleng]

Get agreement with Amiga Inc. Don't pirate. Simple as that. They are no different then any other company in that regards.

On the legal front
-----------------
Hyperion Entertainment, ACube and Eyetech, amongst others, will vouch for me when I say that 'getting argreement' with Amiga Inc is not always the easiest thing to do. And an agreement doesn't mean terribly much with them. Which is why they've been in the courts for over 2 years, laundering throwing millions of pounds in a lawsuit over IP which has no provable value.

Amiga Inc have NO interest in working alongside anybody on anything. People using and/or promoting their product only irritates them. Selling products is not in Amiga's gameplan.


On the benefits of the technology
--------------------------------
NDAs need to be signed up to get a hold of the technology. There is very little public information on the technology. AA1, which was based on TAO's intent, sounded interesting as it was a complie-once-run-anywhere ideal. AA2 appears to be nothing other than a cross-platform API.

There are plenty of free and better documented cross platform APIs around so until the day that somebody comes up with an inspiring game or app made with the technology, or somebody actually describes in detail what it can do (without resorting to lengthy strings of meaningless marketing techno-jargon) and provides some examples, there is no compelling reason to adopt the technology.



On some of your other comments
--------------------------------
AmigaOS 5, the lamented OS X killer, due out end of 2008, does not exist other than in the imagination of a CEO who has clearly lost touch with reality. Discussion of its use on Pandora, emulated or natively, is therefore irrelevant.

AmigaOS 4.x is PPC only. The author of UAE has no intention of writing any PPC emulation code and nobody else seems interested in taking the task on. Even if PPC Emulation was integrated, it would be far too slow to run at any reasonable speed on Pandora.

AROS will be fun to play with on Pandora, but has very few native apps. I will probably use it for about 5 minutes just 'because I can'

The best Amiga experience on Pandora will be using OS3.x under emulation on UAE. Personally, I'll just be using it to play Turrican, Superfrog and a few more classics, and I won't be worrying too much about the OS underneath it!

 

[Wildstar]

Get agreement with Amiga Inc. Don't pirate. Simple as that. They are no different then any other company in that regards.

On the legal front
-----------------
Hyperion Entertainment, ACube and Eyetech, amongst others, will vouch for me when I say that 'getting argreement' with Amiga Inc is not always the easiest thing to do. And an agreement doesn't mean terribly much with them. Which is why they've been in the courts for over 2 years, laundering throwing millions of pounds in a lawsuit over IP which has no provable value.

Amiga Inc have NO interest in working alongside anybody on anything. People using and/or promoting their product only irritates them. Selling products is not in Amiga's gameplan.

On the benefits of the technology
--------------------------------
NDAs need to be signed up to get a hold of the technology. There is very little public information on the technology. AA1, which was based on TAO's intent, sounded interesting as it was a complie-once-run-anywhere ideal. AA2 appears to be nothing other than a cross-platform API.

There are plenty of free and better documented cross platform APIs around so until the day that somebody comes up with an inspiring game or app made with the technology, or somebody actually describes in detail what it can do (without resorting to lengthy strings of meaningless marketing techno-jargon) and provides some examples, there is no compelling reason to adopt the technology.

[snip]

AROS will be fun to play with on Pandora, but has very few native apps. I will probably use it for about 5 minutes just 'because I can'

The best Amiga experience on Pandora will be using OS3.x under emulation on UAE. Personally, I'll just be using it to play Turrican, Superfrog and a few more classics, and I won't be worrying too much about the OS underneath it!


It is not an NDA but an SDA. I have that agreement already.

True, AmigaOS 5 is at this time (probably will be for some time) purely imaginary.

I have no issue with Amiga Inc. but to simply put - I dealt with it a long time ago. Amiga folks do value money. So, if they want money then they should have no issue.

I've seen, read, and heard all sorts of stuff about them. If they don't wan to sell products like the AmigaAnywhere Player, they can have it for download. If they don't want to make money. The SDA that I have, I receive 60% of gross profits and they get 40%. So, if I make a program for sale on their website for $10. If there was 100,000 downloads then $1 Million in proceeds. They receive $400,000 and I get $600,000. They should be happy with a $400,000 income. So what for using their architecture. I don't care, $600,000 is a nice check. Not much different then any other commercial agreement.

Here is the thing, what can be done with it is partly due to a particular platform's actual hw and then the rest is programmer's capabilities.
A c64 can do quite a bit and so can an Amiga 1200. It is not unrealistic that a tightly programmed BIM (Building Information Modeling) program can be made and ran on an A1200. So, who's to say that a person can't write one on AmigaAnywhere. The math routines are just that. A display is still just a 2D pixel matrix. We can do that. Running a raytrace is well within means. The hw of Pandora can do it just fine. An A1200 can. All the basic building blocks are there to do anything. The biggest issue is limited amount of programmers and their willingness to program on it.

As you said, there is issues about the explaination of what it can do. The bottom line, any and all kinds of applications can be built on it. There is nothing that prevents a person from employing additional API with it or writing a custom API or whatever piece of code. Know what you want to create as a program and write it. I can't speak about each individual programmer's writing style and what APIs they want or need. That is too expansive of a scope.

I have both AA1 (v1.52) and AA2. Including the documentations and I am more then willing to share info from the document for it. As far as the actual program itself... I would be cautious to speak in a public forum about distribution of the program. I agree, there needs more activity and existing activity and products does not shine the full capability. Look at early programs for C64 and Amiga. Might not be like what later stuff that was produced. People need to learn AA as with any platform.

It is sad that it isn't being utilized to what it can do.

AA1 had a few additional stuff like the AVE/intent and stuff and I am more interested in it. Both architecture can be implemented with little resources taken. We just can not really compare and explain the systems absolute capabilities with the existing examples. There is a part due to hw capability of platforms in which these things were demonstrated on and the knowledge and skill and willing drive of the programmers writing sw. So many of them are spending alot of time on non-AmigaAnywhere projects and usually writing for Windows or Linux in traditional fashion. If Amiga gets pissy with me, they can email me.

For what it is worth, I believe that we should support it as well as others. I also concur the support of Amiga emulation and AROS.

 

[Wildstar]

AA1 (1.0-1.52) was actually an api extension of Tao's intent API. It wasn't really a self-operating API and required Tao's intent as a subsystem in order to operate on systems with an OS as well as essentially the OS of the system.

AA2 was expanded greatly and replaced Tao's intent and became its own self-contained API of its own. Replacing intent and is its own complete system. That is the main-line difference. Tao's intent API and its modules were replaced by Amiga's own replacement modules and AA was basically rebuilt from the grounds up and uses its own modules and making it into its own API system.

 

[rabidpoobear]

As you said, there is issues about the explaination of what it can do. The bottom line, any and all kinds of applications can be built on it. There is nothing that prevents a person from employing additional API with it or writing a custom API or whatever piece of code. Know what you want to create as a program and write it. I can't speak about each individual programmer's writing style and what APIs they want or need. That is too expansive of a scope.

I have both AA1 (v1.52) and AA2. Including the documentations and I am more then willing to share info from the document for it. As far as the actual program itself... I would be cautious to speak in a public forum about distribution of the program. I agree, there needs more activity and existing activity and products does not shine the full capability. Look at early programs for C64 and Amiga. Might not be like what later stuff that was produced. People need to learn AA as with any platform.

the more I hear about it the less I see the advantage to developing with this vs. using something like SDL (which takes exactly 0% of your profits.)

 

[lulzfish]

So it's an application framework, like Qt or GTK or SDL?

I don't really see the advantage. At all. Especially since Qt, SDL, and GTK are already wonderfully cross-platform, open-source, and lacking in any sort of NDA or SDA. But go ahead and try.

 

[craigix]

I'd not go near Amiga Inc with a ten foot barge pole. They will probably try to sue me for saying that.

 

[Wildstar]

As you said, there is issues about the explaination of what it can do. The bottom line, any and all kinds of applications can be built on it. There is nothing that prevents a person from employing additional API with it or writing a custom API or whatever piece of code. Know what you want to create as a program and write it. I can't speak about each individual programmer's writing style and what APIs they want or need. That is too expansive of a scope.

I have both AA1 (v1.52"] and AA2. Including the documentations and I am more then willing to share info from the document for it. As far as the actual program itself... I would be cautious to speak in a public forum about distribution of the program. I agree, there needs more activity and existing activity and products does not shine the full capability. Look at early programs for C64 and Amiga. Might not be like what later stuff that was produced. People need to learn AA as with any platform.[/quote]the more I hear about it the less I see the advantage to developing with this vs. using something like SDL (which takes exactly 0% of your profits.)


Yeah, only if you sign the SDA. :-D
Then again, you are crafty and you might be able to get the SDK without signing an SDK.

As far as supporting it... it would be just one more system among all the others being supported. It don't take much to support it. I'd support it along with the rest. Does it hurt to support all these different media? No. Just options for programmers to work with. Pandora makes a nice portable hw platform so supporting it with the rest and testing the running and operation should be little effort at all.

That is the basis of what I am looking at.

They aren't suing everybody. The issue is complicated, though. As far as AmigaAnywhere, it is one technology among many others that can be used and should not be dissed and be supported along with SDL. Letting programmers choose the API structure of choice to build their apps,games,ect.

 

[rabidpoobear]

As far as supporting it... it would be just one more system among all the others being supported. [snip]
As far as AmigaAnywhere, it is one technology among many others that can be used and should not be dissed and be supported along with SDL. Letting programmers choose the API structure of choice to build their apps,games,ect.

Who is going to take the time to port and provide support for a proprietary API that it seems like no one is developing for, though?

 

[Iorgy77]

McBill and A.Inc have a proven track record in incompetence, lies and dodgy dealing.

On the plus side if AA worked on the pandora we could have killer apps such as the tip calculator and a snowman construction kit. :wacko:

 

[Wildstar]

As far as supporting it... it would be just one more system among all the others being supported. [snip]
As far as AmigaAnywhere, it is one technology among many others that can be used and should not be dissed and be supported along with SDL. Letting programmers choose the API structure of choice to build their apps,games,ect.

Who is going to take the time to port and provide support for a proprietary API that it seems like no one is developing for, though?

You probably don't have to 'port'. It is already available in Linux port / ARM.

As far as the player go. It is just a matter of running on this unit. I will have to get one of the Pandora units to port it.

 

[Wildstar]

I'll just have to find some links of it running on ARM / Linux.

 

[Pleng]

I actually get quite scared by the occasional hardcore AA fanboy who turns up in a (usually Amiga related) forum telling us all how wonderful it is with absolutely nothing to back it up.

QUOTE
I've seen, read, and heard all sorts of stuff about them. If they don't wan to sell products like the AmigaAnywhere Player, they can have it for download. If they don't want to make money. The SDA that I have, I receive 60% of gross profits and they get 40%. So, if I make a program for sale on their website for $10. If there was 100,000 downloads then $1 Million in proceeds. They receive $400,000 and I get $600,000. They should be happy with a $400,000 income. So what for using their architecture. I don't care, $600,000 is a nice check. Not much different then any other commercial agreement.


The fact is if they REALLY wanted to sell it they'd be doing a hell of a lot more to promote it. Amiga Inc is a proxy company for dealings that are not technology related.

There is no way on earth that anything created with AA has ever, will ever, or could ever generate 1 million sales. You're living in fantasy land. As others have said, it appears to be nothing more than something like SDL which is already supported on Pandora and doesn't require that you pay anybody anything.