Huawei vs the USA and their lapdogs

Discussion in 'Offtopic Discussions' started by Nintendo, May 22, 2019.

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  1. Nintendo

    Nintendo Nintendo Switch

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    It looks like Donald Trump's Executive Order has worked!

    I'm heavily reliant on Huawei products (mostly phones), but now I have moved onto Xiaomi to get my fix.
    Anyway, below is a quote from one of the articles comments' I read on GSMarena.

    https://m.gsmarena.com/things_worsen_for_huawei_as_arm_reportedly_cuts_ties-news-37167.php

    https://m.gsmarena.com/us_delays_hu...id_license_is_temporarily_back-news-37129.php
     
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  2. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    Yeah not too impressed either, as I work for a US company we may have permanently lost a big customer for our ASIC business...

    We mostly dealt with them in their wired network products, but yeah...
     
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  3. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Yeah, until my last revision of my teleco supplied router, I was on Huawei hardware. Standard worries about only part of their platform at the time being patched against discovered holes and nothing going forward, but what I had seemed safe and worked for me. Now I'm on something from a manufacturer I've never heard of, but similarly I've not caught it napping yet.
     
  4. Linux-SWAT

    Linux-SWAT Hardcore Member

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    That's quite a free advertisement for Huawei.
    An incredibly bad move IMHO.
     
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  5. rSl

    rSl **** COMMODORE 64 PYRA V2 **** 4GB RAM SYSTEM

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    the only device i have from huawei is an older umts usb-stick, it worked nice and stable for the time i used it.
    would be cool if they unlock all android bootloaders now, so users can switch to a more open os.
     
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  6. Splintercat

    Splintercat Member

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    I thought this was an interesting article about some of the various parts and sources of said parts that Huawei uses.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48345509
    Basically one of their modems and the module that handles mobile network connections is also affected by the ban.

    Something I'm rather curious about is if they will make a switch to RISC-V from ARM in the middle to long term. (Assuming they survive).
    Though even if they did, I'm not sure where they would source graphics or sounds cores from, maybe Samsung?
     
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  7. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Rereading the RISC-V spec a little more closely, it seems to me a little primitive compared to ARM's more recent specs. It'll take a fair bit of work until it's as performant as their latest Kirin cores although their experience in maniplulating designs might give them a head start (and I assume cross pollination of copyrighted ideas from one domain to risc-V isn't going to worry them, although it should limit what they can push back to the RISC-V community). Sound is unlikely to be a problem; channels, frequencies and bit depth are well understood concepts in general, and there are open source implementations of mp3 decoding, and ogg and flag are open to begin with, which might be worth speeding up. Video is more likely to be a problem though, while specs like opengl are open by definition, the way you implement those instructions is only loosely understood my most users and readers of the spec.
     
  8. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Hopefully they reach some deal, otherwise this means the end for Huawei in the west. There is no way they can get around the roadblocks, the reason being, even if they can egt around the existing roadblocks, more and more will come - I think that's clear now.
     
  9. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    I think it's likely the end of Huawei in totality unless they do something especially weird. I can't see any conventional CPU maker being willing to sell to them, and although there's the grey market I'd expect it to be hard for them to get sufficient quantity at the expected quality that way. I'm not aware of any CPU originators not in the US other than ARM in the UK (albeit owned by the Japanese) - who've ruled themselves out anyway, meaning they're probably limited to Samsung CPUs for the short term at least.

    And look at what happened to ZTE when the US government stopped them selling into the US. No other country joined in on that as far as I know, other than Norway who had their own beef with the firm.
     
  10. ThinkPad

    ThinkPad Very Active Member

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    End of Huawei ? nope.jpg

    Basically Huawei and ZTE are the biggest manufactures of telecom equipment in the world.
    forget the phones and small soho routers, we are talking BIG TELCO HARDWARE, like DWDM transmission equipment and radio towers for the mobile networks that every single GSM provider, and every single Tier 1 and 2 ISP in the world uses.

    Why all of them use Huawei ? because it is 20 times better and 10 times cheaper then any traditional old guards like Cisco, Alcatel Nokia or Ericsson. (the last 3 are total joke today)

    In therms of transmission equipment they out sell Infinera and Ciena also.
     
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  11. AnimatedFreak

    AnimatedFreak Very Active Member

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    This might be my conspiratorial mind making up baseless theory's (which is what it does best) but is this really a push by big tech companies to not be overthrown by chinese companies? Think about it. manufacturing and many jobs that these tech giants use to do in the US has moved to China because of the cheaper (and unfair) labor they got there. It's only logical that having the higher decision making part of tech companies in china would be beneficial too. And so tech Companies based entirely in China have an advantage over Apple and other companies. Being close to manufacturers and knowing the culture and language. I bet big tech companies are scared of companies like Huawei, because they know that having the entire base of a corporation in China is even more beneficial than just having the manufacturing there.
    It wouldn't surprise me if there where some lobbying money from big tech companies involved when making this executive order.
    But what would I know? For some big tech companies in the US this is a major blow.
     
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  12. Nintendo

    Nintendo Nintendo Switch

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    @AnimatedFreak

    Maybe Apple is paying the US government some money to make all this happen, because iPhone sales are down and going down even more?
     
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  13. Linux-SWAT

    Linux-SWAT Hardcore Member

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    Of course it is.
     
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  14. ElPoco

    ElPoco Very Active Member

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    I agree with that quote you posted: Huawei can do without many suppliers, but without ARM it will be a bit more difficult.
    They can still have access to some non-US ARM chip manufacturers, like Allwinner or MTK.

    But they can probably just come up with a scheme where they set up (or work with) a dummy company that buys stuff for them.

    I think that the US has more to lose than China in such a war. China has all the hardware manufacturing. Even after all this, Huawei can still make their hardware. If China was to decide that Apple cannot buy Chinese hardware, Apple would have a hard time producing a new iPhones (they could probably move production to Thailand or Indonesia but it would take time to get everything ready). But in the end, it wouldn't be in China's best interest so I doubt we'll see this happen, unless US keeps going after Chinese companies.
     
  15. Nintendo

    Nintendo Nintendo Switch

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    Do you all think China will stop giving the US rare earth, rocks and minerals?
     
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  16. Hellfleck

    Hellfleck Active Member

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    actually ARM is playing right into Chinas hands :

    https://qz.com/1298050/chinas-chip-ambitions-are-getting-a-huge-boost-thanks-to-softbank-and-arm/

     
  17. AnimatedFreak

    AnimatedFreak Very Active Member

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    Maybe Huawei will switch to RISC-V if they can't use ARM. That would be good for those of us who wants RISC-V to be more popular in consumer products. All thought I don't think they make their own SoC's and there aren't really any RISC-V SoC's that compare to the likes of snapdragon.
     
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  18. ElPoco

    ElPoco Very Active Member

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    It's not "giving" it's selling. And China doesn't sell much of these, they transform it into boards and components that they will sell.
    They have no interest in stopping to sell them. Many surrounding countries have already started to take a share of that market. If China stops selling to the US, US companies will just buy from these other countries. It might be a bit rough at start, but eventually China will just have lost a huge market.

    China's real threat to the US wouldn't be to stop selling but to stop buying. Every time China makes a chip, it pays licences to US (and EU) companies. If China decides to develop their own IP (for example their own "ARM"), they will no longer have to rely on these US/EU companies.

    Although I guess they could still threaten to stop selling one year or so before major elections. In the short-term this could be damaging to the US economy, which would hurt the chances of the current government in the upcoming elections. But it could easily back-fire and strengthen the support of the government, uniting people against a common foreign enemy. So it would be a dangerous bluff, and it's not (at least it hasn't been so far) in the Chinese political culture.
     
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  19. rohezal

    rohezal Advanced Member

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    Well it is not clear what the license withdrawal means. Afaik you pay a one time fee when you develop an ARM soc and then a fee per soc. Depending on the contract, if they already paid the one time fee upfront, I am not sure if arm can deny them the right to sell their chips or produce new ones, if they pay the additional fee per soc. Creating new socs should not be possible, though.

    It would be a bit like "we grant you one of our ice cream recipes. You have to pay 10000$ upfront and 5 cent per ice cream cone sold. [1 Year later.] We revoke your right to buy new a cream recipes. And btw. you must not sell any ice cream made with our old recipe, you already paid for." Not sure if this hold in the european union, especially when ARM as a Japanese / UK firm complains. And the UK leaves Europe. For the US and Canada, they would be most likely banned.

    Most likely China, India, Russia, Pakistan, Parts of South America and South Asia (except south korea and maybe taiwan) will give zero fucks about ARM license withdrawal anyway.



    But they can just buy mediathek / allwinner socs, or develop socs themself, give them to mediathek or allwinner and let them license them.

    In the long term china will most likely move to risc v5.


    Btw. I find the title misleading. It should be Huawei vs the USA and their lapdogs.
     
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  20. ingoreis

    ingoreis Advanced Member

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    First i thought:
    Huawai without Google?
    Wow maybe the Phones be get an Opensource Android like LineageOS.

    Huawai without Windows?
    Okay maybe the Users will get finaly a real Linux on the Phones.
    The Opensource Alternatives are here.

    But with that ARM Desaster that Huawai do not more get ARM CPUs??
    This go way to far.
    With this last Sanction...Huawai will it have hard to survive.


    And this HuawaiOS which they have Announced....
    ...we will see what realy come.

    I am sorry for all People which have to lost the Job in near Future and that all because Americas agressive Trump.
     
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