justthisguy
Still Fresh
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2006
- Messages
- 30
... how do you mean?
cool. Btw, are you going to think of a name? Or I'm putting it in the wiki as Orkie's Magic File Getter
Mark
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Gp2x Package Manager
- Thread starter Orkie
- Start date
... how do you mean?
cool. Btw, are you going to think of a name? Or I'm putting it in the wiki as Orkie's Magic File Getter
Mark
Trip
Sorry, but I suck at explaining stuff :P
Catchycool. Btw, are you going to think of a name? Or I'm putting it in the wiki as Orkie's Magic File Getter
Just wondering Orkie, what happens when the debs are installed.. where do they go?
Do you need a static file system on the sd card?
Can the folders be moved about wherever you want after, while still being able to auto update them?
EDIT: Never mind, I re-read the other post higher up the thread.. my bad
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slygamer
Active Member
That is because the programmers are lazy buggers. It is simple to make programs work from any folder.
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haha, yeah right.
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Tony Hoyle
Still Fresh
You don't need it though. the apt/dpkg combination is absolutely unbeatable, for full blown linux but complete overkill for a gp2x.
gp2x packages simply don't have dependencies, so you don't need dependency resolution. A .zip would work just as well - and in fact *is* working just as well for every package out there.
Someone could write a frontend that checks the versions of the apps you have and tells you about updates and even downloads them. This doesn't require anything new on the gp2x side at all.. just a windows/linux frontend.
As far as needing applications in a fixed location. I basically won't run apps that do that.. I'm not screwing up my directory layout because someone is too damned lazy to code properly.
gp2x packages simply don't have dependencies, so you don't need dependency resolution. A .zip would work just as well - and in fact *is* working just as well for every package out there.
Someone could write a frontend that checks the versions of the apps you have and tells you about updates and even downloads them. This doesn't require anything new on the gp2x side at all.. just a windows/linux frontend.
As far as needing applications in a fixed location. I basically won't run apps that do that.. I'm not screwing up my directory layout because someone is too damned lazy to code properly.
aapje89
Still here...
The apps I download are always in .tar.gz or .rpm format, never in .deb
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Orkie
Super Duper Mega GP Mania
1) For the last time, I'm not using the full dpkg! All this dpkg records is md5sums of the files to check for corrupt installs is needed and a version number, to help with upgrades. As for dependencies - although the packages I'm making now don't have any, who's to say that in the future, there won't be any? A package management system could finally allow people to dynamically link.
2) I've already posted examples of where zips aren't the best solution for individual people. Also, it is pretty much a 50/50 split between people who think this is a good idea and people who think it is worthless, so clearly, supposing it is fine as it is, many people think it could be better.
3) Don't you think I've examined both options? Running everything on the GP2X is a *much* better idea since that can run with any OS that supports ethernet over USB (which is all the major ones, and then some). For updates, the exact same data included in the deb would be needed in the zip anyway, so what you propose is a PC version of this, just with a different archive format - I came to the conclusion this isn't a good idea.
4) Of course you don't need them in specific locations, dpkg can install anywhere only the current GUI can't handle it. As for you not using those programs, that wouldn't change whether or not you used the current method (i.e. no standard method) or this new one - the programs would still be hardcoded. The point of the recommended locations is to make it so that if programmers insist on hardcoding paths, they will work everywhere and you won't need two copies of the same thing for two different programs hardcoded to different locations. These aren't standards that I've just made up either - they are the ones that the communities around the world decided on together, and for the most part, they are very reasonable.
Why would I ignore you? It's a good idea
For the next version I'll pick a different extension for the packages.
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Trip
Sorry, but I suck at explaining stuff :P
Yeh it should save a lot of trouble & make it more unique to the systemWhy would I ignore you? It's a good idea
Just to let everyone know that I've added a package upload feature to the Standards site (as PokeParadox has been kind enough to donate even more web space), but you will have to sign up for the site & login before it will allow you to upload anything. Anyone can download the files without signing up or logging in though.
Users wll also be able to delete any files that they upload too. This will make it easier to post new versions of the packages to the site, without confusing people with too many versions of the same program.
It currently only allows the uploading of deb files, but I think that I can make it except whatever new package ending that you can come up with (.gp2)? If not then I'll just have to ask for help from other people who know how to write PHP
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Orkie
Super Duper Mega GP Mania
What about .gpi (Game Park Installer)? The acronym isn't exactly accurate, but it is quite close. Since some filesystems can't handle extensions longer than 3 characters, it can't really be any longer and I'd personally rather the extension not contain numbers.
Trip
Sorry, but I suck at explaining stuff :P
Sounds good to me
EDIT: Changed it on the site for testing & the .gpi works fine, the .gp2 on the other hand won't.
I think it's the problem that you mentioned Orkie, about it containing a number
Package download page!
EDIT: Changed it on the site for testing & the .gpi works fine, the .gp2 on the other hand won't.
I think it's the problem that you mentioned Orkie, about it containing a number
Package download page!
Shikaku
ROFL THE WORD PENIS IS HILARIOUS!
I'd recommend it. Maybe we can make an easy install section with only gpi's as well.
Tony Hoyle
Still Fresh
I never said you were, but the same comments apply to RPM, etc. Package managers do two things - interdependency and handling updates. Only the second is required for the gp2x and you don't need new (or old) a package format for that.
Create zip files and rename them to .gp2 if you like, but don't take away the flexibility we have now to organise our own SD cards.
Ethernet over USB is hard to get working (not helped by hopelessly innacurate HOWTOs). Maybe you haven't tried to do it on Windows but it's a complete git and not something you want to require as a prerequisite. It also doesn't work with any of the frontends - you need to be using the standard one (something I haven't done since the first day I got my gp2x, because it's complete pants).
If you're aiming this at new users then it must be *simple* which means it must run on the primary OS and copy to the SD drive, working much the same way that everyone works now. Do it in java if you don't want to do the cross-platform porting.
I'm really not trying to be negative here. I was initially in favour of the whole idea but now it fills me with a sense of forboding. It's already a pain handling .zip, .rar, .7z and any others that happend to be floating around. If developers start releasing in *another* format - and you make it so you need to setup an ethernet connection to even install the files - then it'll just turn into a complete mess.
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Orkie
Super Duper Mega GP Mania
I'll respond to these and then ask you to stop posting here, since you clearly have no interest in the project, but a lot in causing bother.
Firstly, there is nothing special about the deb format. It is just a .tar.gz inside an ar archive - nothing strange, so you can always extract data from them more easily. Also, there are already loads of programs around to work with debs, they are well understood and always work in exactly the same way. Secondly, as I said before, what you are suggesting is just creating a deb, but with the contents zipped rather than ar-red, which would be silly since as I said before, debs are already a standard. Nobody is forcing you to use GPIs,: continue to use zips if you want, or extract the data from GPIs (it isn't hard, I could explain it in a few lines on the command line, and I expect WinRAR probably supports ar, I know it supports gzip which is used internally), it doesn't bother me.
As for usb/eth on Windows, I have actually done it many times before (the exact procedure I can't remember anymore, but it wouldn't be hard for me to look up) with the iPAQ/Familiar Linux and it takes about 2 minutes to configure (which I am quite capable of documenting). Java, I would never use because I hate the language and it also doesn't run in as many places as running the software on the GP2X would allow for. Even if you don't use the online download feature when it appears, you'll still be able to download the packages and install them.
You need to understand that developers work on whatever they want, not what somebody tells them they should be working on because they think it would be more 'worthwhile' (this is something we've seen more of recently on these forums). And you also need to realise that I'm not the idiot you seem to think I am - I do understand what I'm doing... honest!
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haha, why would filesystems EVER care how many characters are in the "extension"? the extension is not even something filesystems know about.
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Orkie
Super Duper Mega GP Mania
According to the FAT sepcifications, the three letter extension is stored away from the other 8 characters which make up the main filename.
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Tony Hoyle
Still Fresh
If I didn't care I wouldn't post!
Like I said I was initially in favour. It's just the details put me off.There's nothing special about pretty much any package format I've ever used (except perhaps .msi, but then microsoft often tend to over-engineer stuff). That's not the point.
gp2x is a unique platform that needs a unique solution. Nobody is going to be copying dpkg files between debian and and the gp2x... there's no point in much of the baggage that dpkg files store (even ipkg tends to assume that you can do things like install to /lib and /bin). Stick a tarball of the binary in there and a single file describing the version, author, description etc., maybe an install script (although they should be rare) and you've got all you need.
If you want to stick that in a .ar file and call it dpkg then fine (although I'd recommend calling it something else) but at least ship an app that'll open it in different OS's if you do that (btw. winrar cannot open .ar files.. outside cygwin I'm not aware of anything on windows that will).
A lot of developers are going to release their downloads in one format. Why would they bother making two? So you're faced with two outcomes - 1. most people keep using zip, or 2. most people move to the new system.
If I can double click on one of your GPI files and it opens and I can drop stuff on the SD like I do now then I'll be happy (well actually I install into an image onto the NAS which is about 6gb of stuff and won't fit on an SD, but it's the same principle).
The HOWTO sends you to microsoft's site downloading windows 2000 specific SDKs, which of course doesn't work at all. It also suggests you hand-craft a .inf file..
Yes you don't need to do that but I wasted about half a day on it before I gave up and worked it out for myself (find a working .inf, select 'update driver' and let the system pickup its default drivers. Even got that working for 64bit with a bit of hacking).
I wonder how many 'ordinary' users could even handle the network setup TBH... never overestimate the knowledge of your users.
I know - I've worked with developers (and developed stuff) for 15 years... Nobody's saying you haven't got a good idea. A proper package system could work well. That doesn't stop me having opinions about 'proper' though
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nickspoon
vultum stultum habes
But now you're just complicating things further. "copying dpkg files between debian and and the gp2x" I don't understand. Install script, tar file, custom format and handler... Why not use a .deb? The contents have been explained - "baggage" is minimal, and it allows you to do things that may be beyond the scope of a normal user - install new libraries or supporting data (such as Timidity) for example.
7-zip.
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1. its not for windows the app runs on the gp2x
2. .deb is a tar.gz open it on win32 with winzip (zlib compression)
3. just because the gpi is a package format doesnt make it any less a zlib compressed file use it like any other package (.zip .rar .7z)
4. this enhances choice but at the same time standarise (the zips ras and such will still be there)
i think you will like it when the you realise thats it gives you the choice of doing it "your way" but with less hassle
http://www.gzip.org/#faq4
2. .deb is a tar.gz open it on win32 with winzip (zlib compression)
3. just because the gpi is a package format doesnt make it any less a zlib compressed file use it like any other package (.zip .rar .7z)
4. this enhances choice but at the same time standarise (the zips ras and such will still be there)
i think you will like it when the you realise thats it gives you the choice of doing it "your way" but with less hassle
http://www.gzip.org/#faq4
pepone
Pouet! Pouet! Do want!
.deb is not a .tar.gz, it's an ar archive. You can see the content of a deb file with ar:
Code:
# ar t toto.deb
debian-binary
control.tar.gz
data.tar.gz
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