Girl Throws Puppies In River. About To Get Effed By 4Chan

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. IMO, an ecosystem is viable if there is life, period. How many prior species that have gone extinct is irrelevant since we don't know why they went extinct.
This may just be my belief but humans have detached themselves from nature based on the fact that we have the power to overcome natural selection. We can attempt and even succeed in stopping our own demise. No other form of life can say the same.

Er, what? Show me an immortal human and maybe I'll believe you.

Seriously, though, humans are certainly not immune to natural selection. Why do you think we are?

I believe he's referring to our demise as a SPECIES. Also, I don't believe natural selection applies here. Regardless of our traits we won't be picked up by another species unless aliens come down from space and take over the planet ;p

 

[___]

What I have a problem with is the hypocracy.

I have the exact same problem with vegetarians and their "guilt free grill". When I eat a steak, I freely admit that a cow has died to feed 100 people (or so).
How many rabbits, birds, and mice died in the thresher that collected the grain for that "guilt free" veggie burger?

See that is what I am talking about. Guilt free is for whiney 16 year old emo kids who want to save the cute animals. Noone is guilty of anything when it comes to food, so I don't see why meat eaters always get all defensive about doing so. I am vegetarian for myself only, to feel better about myself and not better than others. I would never call anyone a murderer for eating meat. I will never tell anyone to stop eating meat. I will even cook meat for people as I have said before. I will also eat out of a dish with meat because meat will not kill me, in fact meat is pretty tasty. I am also not appalled by meat. And why would I, it's not like I have been a vegetarian all my life. I used to eat everything just to try it out and never was a picky eater when I was a kid.

It's about not taking part of the machinery. The big industry that runs the fur farms, the battery farms, the harvesting of rain forest to make space for more cattle, all of this is due to extremely decadent consumption. 30 years ago people ate way less meat and now it has become a daily thing.
Cattle does not and will not ever feed the world. Argentina is a 3rd world country where people are starving eventhough it is one of the main producers of beef. It's all about how these things are being distributed. Also, the amount of crops that have to be invested to actually grow beef is ridiculously humongous. Instead of just using those resources they are basically wasted to feed cattle. I am not going into more detail here, but if everybody living on the prosperous side of the planet would refrain from eating meat on such a regular basis, many others could be fed by crops in their own country and none of that "we need to ship food to the poor" crap would have to take place.

 

[sam fisher]

Oh, I'm sure there will be some immediate impacts. Take rats for example, with no humans to make waste they lose their main food source. Rats wouldn't die out completely, just be regulated according to the environment around them. Same would happen to the seals. Less fish = less seals = normal balance.

I propose you could argue the exact same thing for the removal of mosquitos, or wolves, or any other animal: there would be an immediate impact, but eventually a new order would be established that is radically different from the one before it. I don't understand how the immediate impact and ultimate change to the ecosystem from the removal of all humans is different than a similar change that would result from the removal of any other animal.

This may be a fact or just my opinion but humanity has effectively removed themselves, for all intents and purposes, from said ecosystem through our technology and population size. If you kill humanity there will be some extinctions but only because we put those species in extinction's crosshairs prior to our own disappearance.

In the end I suppose all of this is conjecture since the only way for these things to be proven would be for all of us to die!

We have technology and large populations so we are not part of the ecosystem/environment any longer is what you seem to be saying. We don't get eaten or killed by other species very often any more seems to be your reason for this. That may well exclude us from the food chain but I don't see how that stops us shaping other aspects of the ecosystem/environment.

 

[WizardStan]

It's about not taking part of the machinery. The big industry that runs the fur farms, the battery farms, the harvesting of rain forest to make space for more cattle, all of this is due to extremely decadent consumption.

So what would be your opinion on meat produced outside the machine? Livestock raised on traditional farms where they're free to roam and graze in fields that would otherwise be unsuited to crops?

 

[Exophase]

We have technology and large populations so we are not part of the ecosystem/environment any longer is what you seem to be saying. We don't get eaten or killed by other species very often any more seems to be your reason for this. That may well exclude us from the food chain but I don't see how that stops us shaping other aspects of the ecosystem/environment.

We're part of the food chain so long as we keep dying and get buried in the ground (everyone switching to cremation might hurt this).

I had a post in mind to respond to some of things Orion said to me early but I have no energy now due to fighting with torpor instead

 

[Orion4874]

I'll just say that I have my own opinions on humanity and it's place and impact in this world. I would never expect anyone to agree with me on my personal beliefs. I truly enjoy open debates like this especially when it's about something I care greatly about. I respect all your opinions even if I believe they're wrong so like I said before please don't think that I'm gunning for anyone or trying to make this personal in any way. Pissing people off here is the last thing I want to do.

 

[Tom`]

It's about not taking part of the machinery. The big industry that runs the fur farms, the battery farms, the harvesting of rain forest to make space for more cattle, all of this is due to extremely decadent consumption.

So what would be your opinion on meat produced outside the machine? Livestock raised on traditional farms where they're free to roam and graze in fields that would otherwise be unsuited to crops?

Yeah, I want to point this out - there are generally quite a few family farmers who are willing to sell you large quantities of ethically-grown meat. You need a pretty big freezer, but you can go to the butcher and tell them exactly what cuts you want. If you want less, find some people to split it with you. This is also generally cheaper than anything you could get from a supermarket, and certainly a lot cheaper than buying free-range meat from some specialty store.

 

[Orion4874]

It's about not taking part of the machinery. The big industry that runs the fur farms, the battery farms, the harvesting of rain forest to make space for more cattle, all of this is due to extremely decadent consumption.

So what would be your opinion on meat produced outside the machine? Livestock raised on traditional farms where they're free to roam and graze in fields that would otherwise be unsuited to crops?

Yeah, I want to point this out - there are generally quite a few family farmers who are willing to sell you large quantities of ethically-grown meat. You need a pretty big freezer, but you can go to the butcher and tell them exactly what cuts you want. If you want less, find some people to split it with you. This is also generally cheaper than anything you could get from a supermarket, and certainly a lot cheaper than buying free-range meat from some specialty store.

Yeah, it always amazes me that anything labeled "organic" or free of this and that is so much more expensive. You want to be healthy or use products that aren't tested on animals then you're gonna pay for it. It's all a conspiracy I tell ya! When ever possible buy directly from a farm, they're generally not out to rape you.

 

[klikklak]

I have to say that I love this forum. A video about senseless cruelty turns in to an insightful discussion on deep ecology (orion) and more social interpretations of ecology.

Some brief points: there is no ethical shopping. The main problems with current farming practices come from the need to cut down costs to raise profits. Debating about what nature would be like without humans is pointless, we exist and we're animals like the rest of them, it's only a matter of what kind of society we form. ie. do we form a society where we enrich biodiversity or where we make everything simple and packed in to a plastic bag. If you want to change something, see what your city can do, that way it's at least locally controlled. Unless you like of five year plans, in which case vote communist or social democrat.

Disclaimer: I've drank six beers. Made with german beer standards, so they're not that bad even from a shopping standpoint.

 

[___]

It's about not taking part of the machinery. The big industry that runs the fur farms, the battery farms, the harvesting of rain forest to make space for more cattle, all of this is due to extremely decadent consumption.

So what would be your opinion on meat produced outside the machine? Livestock raised on traditional farms where they're free to roam and graze in fields that would otherwise be unsuited to crops?

What the hell dude? Don't you read what I am writing? I don't care!!! Eat it! It's fine. I have a problem with the big industry not with people eating meat. It doesn't matter for the animals as they still die but at least they are taken care of. Lots of animals being raised on small family farms are still held like shit though. Of course there might be a couple of hippies growing organic food, be it meat or plants, but most of the small traditional farming is being done by poor people in poor countries to provide for their families and from an animal rights point of view this is no better then a battery farm/industrial farming. But it feeds people who need to be fed so I really really really do not give a shit. As I said before, human rights go before animal rights. As long as it is a struggle to survive and not a struggle to have the dominant market share.
Would I eat organic/ethically grown meat? No I actually wouldn't. I can't tell you exactly why though. I do not feel the need to eat meat as I have the luxury to choose to eat tofu/saitan instead and live on a vegetarian and often vegan diet. Maybe it has become some sort of spiritual thing for me. I smoke, I use substances, I drink and I buy video games galore so maybe I need some sort of abstinence to balance my otherwise pretty hedonistic lifestyle. It might also be something that I need to prove to myself.

Say I am in a poor country and I am being invited by locals to eat with them and they would offer me meat. Of course I would eat it right away. If someone does not have the same cultural background, I will not trample over their customs and decline a luxury offered to me as a matter of hospitality where it is normally scarce.

@klikklak: I am pretty sure you are an anarchist. Am I right about this? I think we talked about squatting and punkrock before and I always wanted to ask you. lol. and yeah, this is a pretty great forum.

 

[klikklak]

xnopasaranx: yeah, you're not wrong about it. Not exactly an anarchist, but a social ecologist/communalist. On the socialist side (instead of individualist) of the libertarian left. I do shit like translations and organizing, so yeah, I'm quite involved.

 

[___]

Hehe awesome. I am right in there as well. More of a syndicalist, socialist anarchist. I can smell resistance over the interwebz!!! How awesome is that!

 

[Goity]

Yes, bla bla bla foodchain, bla bla bla ecosystem.


Nova: Micropigs end up fooking massive in the end. They're just slow growing afaik. So they're good pets at the start, but once they get massive, less so.

I have the exact same problem with vegetarians and their "guilt free grill". When I eat a steak, I freely admit that a cow has died to feed 100 people (or so).
How many rabbits, birds, and mice died in the thresher that collected the grain for that "guilt free" veggie burger?

Maddox much?

 

[WizardStan]

What the hell dude? Don't you read what I am writing? I don't care!!! Eat it! It's fine. I have a problem with the big industry not with people eating meat.

Woah, calm down please. I wasn't trying to make you angry, I'm genuinely curious. This isn't about me eating meat, this is about your stance on the production of it. You're opposed to the big industry, which I can understand. I just wanted to know how that opinion translates back into the grass roots industry. Your exposition gave me your opinion, which is all I wanted. I didn't think it would make you so angry. Sorry.

Maddox much?

Not until I just looked him up on Google. And even now, I think I'll avoid his website. I'm assuming he said something similar?

 

[Username]

Maddox much?

Not until I just looked him up on Google. And even now, I think I'll avoid his website. I'm assuming he said something similar?

^ That pretty much sums up his stance on guiltless grills.

 

[___]

What the hell dude? Don't you read what I am writing? I don't care!!! Eat it! It's fine. I have a problem with the big industry not with people eating meat.

Woah, calm down please. I wasn't trying to make you angry, I'm genuinely curious. This isn't about me eating meat, this is about your stance on the production of it. You're opposed to the big industry, which I can understand. I just wanted to know how that opinion translates back into the grass roots industry. Your exposition gave me your opinion, which is all I wanted. I didn't think it would make you so angry. Sorry.

Sorry about that. I didn't want to come across as angry. I just thought my opinion about ehtically raised cattle came across in the previous posts so I was kinda annoyed and thought you really did not read any of it
Hope I was able to state my opiniong clearly in the last post then. cheers.

About that caricature: People who demand 100% consistency on any kind of ideology turn it into a dogma. To me that is simply stupid. I am not going to watch every step I take because I could accidently crush a bug, still I am a vegetarian. I will kill mosquitos and flies because I find them disgusting and annoying me personally, still I am all for animal rights. People seem to think that there can only be one point of view and only one stance to an opinion. That is false. The human mind works differently and reasoning is only possible through compromise. Everything else is either completely unrealistic or fascist BS.

 

[Goity]

Maddox much?

Not until I just looked him up on Google. And even now, I think I'll avoid his website. I'm assuming he said something similar?

It's more the fact that you essentially quoted him word for word.

 

[b._.o._.b]

http://iheadlines.info/news/puppy-girl-drowned-found-by-police/

 

[dogeymon]

I don't like 4chan justice. This isn't the first time they've banded together to make some perpetrators life hell and it won't be the last. The problem is, they don't always get it right: sometimes someone is shown doing something taken out of context, was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, or the person makes a bad judgment call and is already suffering the consequences, and along comes 4chan to post this persons personal information, send death threats, generally harass them over what should have been a private matter.
And these threats and harassment? What do they accomplish? A police escort, sometimes FBI involvement: they're costing tax payers sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars to do nothing but make one person (sometimes a family, very often several entirely innocent people as well) suffer, many of whom already feel bad over what happened. And for true crimes already being handled by the police, these threats are just distractions they don't need. A wise lawyer can even use them as leverage to get a lighter sentence if it's the kind of crime that would result in an extended stay. Everybody loses!
Harassing and threatening people, even if they are "evil" enough to throw puppies in a river, does far more harm than good. They want to help? Find out all this information about her and then send it to the police! Last I heard, cruelty to animals is an offense under the criminal code and subject to jail time. If they do all this research in advance, the power of the mob with a million eyes finding things that a detective might miss, the police can build an even stronger case with fewer resources. Everybody wins, except the perpetrator who receives a more appropriate punishment for their crime.

AMEN TO ALL THAT!! I'm sick of mob justice!

 

[Exophase]

http://iheadlines.in...ound-by-police/

That writeup is terrible. Fortunately there's a link to real coverage:

http://www.nydailyne..._released_.html

The girl behind this is quoted as saying:

"I would like to appologize for my behavior. The puppies belonged to my grandma and she told me to get rid of them because they were only 3 days and were ill. They had parasites from their mother. I didn't knew exactly what to do so I thrown them in the river because it was a short death. I did not want to make them suffer. I am really sorry for this :-("

I think given these circumstances the reaction is unjustified, she was euthanizing them.. maybe not in a very appropriate manner but euthanasia for dogs is still a commonly accepted practice. Yeah maybe she shouldn't have had "fun" doing it but what difference does it really make, if she sincerely thought that this was the most humane way to kill them (there are much worse possibilities if she was just a sadist). It's not like you can make poor people in Bosnia obligated to take animals to a vet to be put down, these people could very well be struggling to even eat.