Flame-war Collapsage?

[Tobriand]

I've not a clue if its possible - or for that matter worthwhile - but it crosses my mind that most people know when they're flaming someone else. Similarly, they probably realise that the vast majority of people don't desperately - in all liklihood - want to read it; its just a case of flaring off anger or what have you. So, knowing this, would it be possible to implement a [flame target=NAME] tag to wrap around posts that you're trying to flame. The result of using one would be, I suspect, to

a) Hide the highlighted flamed text from most people reading - the post would show up, but there's be a button saying "show flame" instead of the actual words.

B) PM the person who is actually being flamed to tell them that someone doesn't like them and that they've received one (possibly with a link).

That way, whoever is being sworn at gets a chance to read the post where they're being insulted and respond - in thread (so they've got the chance to have only a partial flame) but without insulting every person under the sun.

Also potentially could add the [flamemod] tag which did exactly the same thing, but without the PM - i.e. for use by mods when a flamewar is related to the thread and therefore doesn't deserve splitting, but when its really still taking up too much space.

Of course, could be that the forum is not actually quite flexible enough for that, or that there are other reasons why it'd be a bad idea, but hey - just something to ull on for 5 minutes

 

[Gruntfuggly]

Sounds like a good idea. It's getting pretty annyoing having to trawl throught post after post of childish arguing just to get to a useful peice of information...

Makes me wonder whether a board could be set up with limited access (members who joined before a certain date or something)...

 

[Tobriand]

That, I seem to recall, has been discussed and dismissed before. VIP boards are said (usually by those who've been on VIP area boards themselves) to mess up everything - especially the sensation of being part of a single fairly unified (if a bit immature at times) community. Which is what a lot of people like here.

Besides, there are some annoying people who've been around for a long while, just as there are a great deal of newbies who seem to know a helluvalot about what they're talking about.

 

[Hanz™]

That, I seem to recall, has been discussed and dismissed before. VIP boards are said (usually by those who've been on VIP area boards themselves) to mess up everything - especially the sensation of being part of a single fairly unified (if a bit immature at times) community. Which is what a lot of people like here.

Besides, there are some annoying people who've been around for a long while, just as there are a great deal of newbies who seem to know a helluvalot about what they're talking about.

​

Yes a VIP board would really fuck things up badly.

 

[reaper79]

I think this could be good or very bad, I guess it depends on the overall premise of the idea. I'm guessing the intention is to allow someone reading to avoid reading flame posts, and yet allow those who are flamed know what is happening. However, I think that the system would create more tension when someone gets flamed, because in actuality, flames currently seem a bit general, not specifically targeted as they would then become. It does help with the confusion of knowing who is being flammed and what for, perhaps.

I would actually like to see it split between Guest forums and pay forums. I'd be glad to pay, just make it small and simple, like a paypal donation or something. It would help to sort of separate the serious from the occasional. As Skeezix said recently, "We don't have to be an elitist group all the time!", or something very similiar to that (sorry Skeezix if i didn't get it exactly right), and I feel that helps to encapsulate the problem that many are experiencing. The core is, that there were a few die-hard GP32 fans that were the essential backbone of these forums (don't really include myself), many of them devs, and many of them have been around since before '03. Now that the GPX2, and even PSP, DS, and XGP are making headlines, there has been a large influx of new users looking to learn and discover and offer help. Not a year ago, someone characterized as a "n00b", or whatever derivative or perjorative term you use, would come by and ask the typical flame-starting questions, and all the "veterans" would jump all over them. Now we have many many new people coming to the scene and there is a sort of old versus new mentality.

Your analogy to kids and a car ride, Tobriand, in response to the Osnes9x flames in the drmd 4.0 thred, is very good. And I think a pay forum, or selective forum, would allow those who want to do the driving to take a vacation or trip without the kids. Not trying to be elitist here, just saying I get tired of all the flames and all the "l337 uber n00bs r0xx" or however it is spelled/said.

Have fun...

EDIT:
Wow, a lot of fast posters beat me to it. I do agree that VIP or even Pay forums are not perfect, but I think it does help, at least separating the people who just stop by and ask 1 or 2 questions about, "Is Snes fast on the GP32?", or can someone port "insert game title". Or possibly only make the Dev forums "special". I really hate to see a lot of the developers getting harassed with requests rather than the feedback and praise they deserve.

 

[Gruntfuggly]

Fair enough - lets hope something can be done using the [flame] idea then...

 

[Auritribe]

Sounds like a good idea. It's getting pretty annyoing having to trawl throught post after post of childish arguing just to get to a useful peice of information...

Makes me wonder whether a board could be set up with limited access (members who joined before a certain date or something)...

​

I should get my own category.

 

[Tobriand]

Yeah, I realise it could go either way - especially in terms of making people targets of a specific flame. The only reason I suggest including a target is to make sure the person who its primarily aimed at (if there is one) does read it - or at least, know it exists; if it were hidden as a flame without some form of notification, surely there is little point in those who are flaming people in using the tags?

I don't see why including a target would be absolutely necessary, however... the main thrust I'm trying to get at is the ability to hide self-professed off-topic flames easily; the rest is the carrot to persuade those who're making this necessary to tag along. With a bit of luck. If anyone can, of course, think of a better way of doing this without the targetting, then I'm all for it, but that was the one I came up with.

Essentially, it almost falls into the domain of an open letter - or at least an open pm. That is, everyone *can* read it, but it is addressed to a specific person, and no-one has to without choosing to.

An [OpenPM Target=NAME Topic=FLAME/FEATURE-REQUEST/COMPLAINT/WHATEVER] tag would probably do precisely the same job.

EDIT: Damn typos...

 

[reaper79]

I don't see why including a target would be absolutely necessary, however... the main thrust I'm trying to get at is the ability to hide self-professed off-topic flames easily; the rest is the carrot to persuade those who're making this necessary to tag along. With a bit of luck. If anyone can, of course, think of a better way of doing this without the targetting, then I'm all for it, but that was the one I came up with.

​

Agreed. Too many people hope on the flame band-wagon, so to speak.

 

[TelcoLou]

a) Hide the highlighted flamed text from most people reading - the post would show up, but there's be a button saying "show flame" instead of the actual words.

:lol:

Sorry, but I really laughed at the "show flame" button :lol:

 

[Angel]

its actually a good idea. by the quote and reply buttons should be a flame button. That would act as quote. In the actual board itself you'd have your topic, for example you have "Flame-war Collapsage" the number of posts, then have "flames on/off" if there are flame quotes,

of course you'd have to depend on people actually using the flame button.

 

[ralp99]

i say bah to it all..

flames/arguments happen in any forum with anything even remotely interesting going on, it's a fact of life. passionate people, right?

there's been spells of flaming here and there on gp32x forums just like any other one. but it's never got so carried away so as to ruin things, well maybe once or twice.. heh heh. but nothing too terrible.

anyway -- all consequences considered, i'd just vote to leave things as they are. noob-friendly is the best policy, otherwise none of us would have got here in the first place, eh? this site really is a place where people get their first (and most) info about gp32.

retrogaming (and gp32 in particular) has always been a cool scene 'cause it was accesible to pretty much anyone who wanted to put in the time, and we all are able to generally appreciate each other for that fact. i would hope it could stay that way.

all that being said, you all suck and i hate you.

 

[tekt5]

-FLAME WARNING- HEY Tobriand!! I THINK YOUR IDEA IS FUCKING GAY!!! HAHA YOU LOSER

actually its pretty good but I doubt people would use it much

 

[psj3809]

i say bah to it all..

flames/arguments happen in any forum with anything even remotely interesting going on, it's a fact of life. passionate people, right?

there's been spells of flaming here and there on gp32x forums just like any other one. but it's never got so carried away so as to ruin things, well maybe once or twice.. heh heh. but nothing too terrible.

anyway -- all consequences considered, i'd just vote to leave things as they are. noob-friendly is the best policy, otherwise none of us would have got here in the first place, eh? this site really is a place where people get their first (and most) info about gp32.

​

Flames/Arguments happen on every forum yes but its boring and childish to read them. I mean SOOO many people act like Rambo online and in person they would be wetting their pants most of them. Cant stand the way some people act like a tough guy online.

However surely the Admin/Mod's should do their job and try to defuse some situations early on ? I'm not a huge fan of Admins as normally they abuse their position and ban every topic on site, the ones here seem good, if anything perhaps a bit too laid back (or they simply dont have the time which is fair enough).

But yeah basically be friendly to noobs. Its a well known fact someone isnt going to bother searching the threads about the question theyre gonna ask, just doesnt happen all the time. I did that once ,got flamed for bring up an old topic ! I would have got flamed if i created a new one on the same subject though !

At the end of the day the more the merrier here, the more people who get into the GP scene the better. But to hear all the kids acting tough and talking trash really is boring and pretty sad. Its like its a competition to be the first one to flame the noob sometimes !

 

[Gruntfuggly]

I use another (non-gaming) site with a forum with several thousand members (including school age) and there is no flaming, swearing or childish arguments. I know this isn't the norm, but it proves that it *is* possible...

 

[danr]

I use another (non-gaming) site with a forum with several thousand members (including school age) and there is no flaming, swearing or childish arguments. I know this isn't the norm, but it proves that it *is* possible...

​

I know what you mean, I visit several that are like that. doesn't have to be kids though, plenty of the people here are adults and act just as juvenile. That's why i left in the first place, i used to come here half a year ago and just got tired of all the bitching.

I don't necessarily think the flame tag is a bad idea but i don't think it woud work reliably. Who's gonna take the time to do all that when they're pissed?

In all fairness tho, i don't see why mrdark was attacked so quickly last night. he didn't start it, the first guy who scolded him did. people like that are simply abrasive and inviting of a flame war, and i don't think mrdark was trying to keep it going, it seems to me life he was just trying to defend himself and the more desperate he got to do so the more people yelled at him.

That's what i think is unfair, i think if the situation wasnt handled so poorly in the first place we wouldnt be talking about it now.

 

[gp32rich]

It's a great idea in theory!
But the one major problem is .. who - in a fit of anger - will think about pressing a [flame] button?


A better idea would be for a flame monitor to damp down combustible material
Or for one of the staff to jump on it and stamp it out. (And send a PM letting them know that it won't be tolerated)
If flames were deleted often enough people would stop doing it.
And we can help by using the [report] button over every post.


It should be made a rule of the board to treat all members with respect

 

[danr]

Lol, beat ya by just a minute bro!

Point totally echoed in the respect statement though. like I said, if people were just not so bitchy and quick to attack, we wouldn't have these problems.

 

[Tarka]

I'm not sure how much it would add work but:
could Mods not have a button to collapse Flames to the 'show flame' button?

then the rest of us can get on reading real discussions and the flames would be sqashed (not actually flat but pretty close)

??

 

[reaper79]

There are other sites and other forums that don't really have as much flaming, that is true. However, it depends on the premise of the site, and based on that you get a certain crowd of users. I use to frequent overclockers.com's forums quite regularly, and there isn't a whole lot of flaming at all. It's a more mature crowd. This forums is "gaming" based and draws a crowd of, as previously stated, people who like to act tough and flame because the internet allows them to be anonymous.

The GP32 was a very obscure handheld, and only attracted people that were a bit more serious about the platform. Many have been hanging around this site for almost 4 years. I used this site for information when I got my GP32 in '02. Now the next iteration of the GP32 is coming out, and we are getting a new crowd. It isn't just the new people that are flaming and acting out, it's primarily the "veterans" that are not used to the "1337" crowd, so to speak. I don't think this is targeted at the "newbs", because you are right, the more people the better. It is just the type of new users that have people, like Tobriand, concerned about the level and frequency of flaming.

My main concern is the devs. Many of them frequent these forums, and I don't like seeing people that contribute greatly to this handheld and this culture, harassed and plagued by users, old and new, making requests and begging for more FREE stuff. It just gets tiring. Although the devs do protect their own and hand out a good deal of flaming too. An extreme analogy, but many people would get pissed off if they were in a forum where John Carmack talked to people and posted updates, and a bunch of people kept asking him to work on Half-life (b/c they like it better than Doom3) or could he alter the brightness in Doom3 or will the next Doom4 be released for the "insert handheld/platform".

Honestly though... how hard is it to read through the archives and find the information you need? Evidently it is really hard. How often do we get this:

"Hi, don't flame me, but I looked through all the forums, archives, and read all the stickies and How-To's and visited every GP32 site on the face of the internet, but couldn't find what I was looking for. Could any one please tell me... is drmd Blu+ compatible?"

Hi-Ho!