EvilDragon's Coffee Hoard (Coffee discussion split from on-topic)


So are sugar and carbohydrates, both of which play essential roles in body function.
Refined sugar can be addicting but is unhealthy. Sugar in whole fruit is healthy but not addicting. In fact living on fruit is a great way to get over a junkfood addiction and learn how to fast.



Annecdotal crap. I have sleep issues. Never felt rested a day in my life.

Apparently you know better than a foremost medical authority :oops:
Modern medicine is made by the medical industry and thus is made to serve the medical industry. Cures are not good business because with every success one loses a customer, but selling pills which keep people sick but alleviate symptoms are great for making money since one gets lifelong customers and the pills can often by patented. There is a conflict of interest here.

I definitely do not know better than medical authorities on how to make money from sick people.


But I am not talking about your condition since I know nothing about your condition. I detox through fruit and fasting and it worked great for me. I definitely prefer this over the diseases that were cured by it. But I have no evidence for it, all I set out to do was cure myself. I needed no more evidence than a healthy body after I gave it a chance.
 
Refined sugar can be addicting but is unhealthy. Sugar in whole fruit is healthy but not addicting. In fact living on fruit is a great way to get over a junkfood addiction and learn how to fast.

The chemical composition is exactly the same. The effect on insulin is EXACTLY the same. Sugar is sugar.


Modern medicine is made by the medical industry and thus is made to serve the medical industry. Cures are not good business because with every success one loses a customer, but selling pills which keep people sick but alleviate symptoms are great for making money since one gets lifelong customers and the pills can often by patented. There is a conflict of interest here.

Oh God. You are one of those.

You an anti-vaxxer too?

I definitely do not know better than medical authorities on how to make money from sick people.

You definitely also don't know better than a well regarded NONPROFIT medical group.

I detox through fruit and fasting and it worked great for me.

Know what actually detoxes you? Your liver, also your kidneys.

But I have no evidence for it, all I set out to do was cure myself. I needed no more evidence than a healthy body after I gave it a chance.

Figures. Didn't stop you from preaching about how coffee is poison (and ignoring caffeine in tea).
 
The chemical composition is exactly the same. The effect on insulin is EXACTLY the same. Sugar is sugar.
Just like a catalyst influences how a reaction deals with it's fuel so do the other nutrients change how our body deals with sugar. Some reactions can be drastically changed by what surrounds the thing that undergoes the actual reaction.

You definitely also don't know better than a well regarded NONPROFIT medical group.,
Who talks about mays and correlations. Again: They did not say that coffee is healthy.

Know what actually detoxes you? Your liver, also your kidneys.
Only when they get the time to do so. This is what fasting and fruit eating are for. It stops the flow of waste coming in and frees the body to focus on old waste instead of being occupied with all the new waste that is coming in. Not giving their detoxing organs time to detox old waste is why many people are sick and overweight despite having both kidney's and their liver and all other human detoxing organs.


Figures. Didn't stop you from preaching about how coffee is poison (and ignoring caffeine in tea).
I am not preaching since I am not saying what you must do, just explaining what I live by. I do not let others decide how I should live and I would not expect you to either. You are free to drink as much coffee as you want. As for tea, I drink it but am not addicted to it. I do not need a daily dose of tea to feel good. But if I did then I would consider tea to be unhealthy and would get rid of my addiction.
 
Who talks about mays and correlations. Again: They did not say that coffee is healthy.
I haven't seen anyone claiming it is here to be honest, just people saying it's not that bad for you.

Only when they get the time to do so. This is what fasting and fruit eating are for. It stops the flow of waste coming in and frees the body to focus on old waste instead of being occupied with all the new waste that is coming in. Not giving their detoxing organs time to detox old waste is why many people are sick and overweight despite having both kidney's and their liver and all other human detoxing organs.
People are overweight because their bodies have made excess fat to enable them to fast for longer. But people are sick for a whole host of different reasons, traditionally with body weight having very little to do with it, but maybe that's changing as we cure all of the other diseases that used to end out lives early.

I am not preaching since I am not saying what you must do, just explaining what I live by. I do not let others decide how I should live and I would not expect you to either. You are free to drink as much coffee as you want. As for tea, I drink it but am not addicted to it. I do not need a daily dose of tea to feel good. But if I did then I would consider tea to be unhealthy and would get rid of my addiction.
Yeah, fair enough. On most days I have a double espresso after waking, which I think it more about the care taken to fill and assemble to moka pot giving me the time to work out what to do next. Today though, I had to go out early so I didn't have a coffee, and is hasn't made me feel any different, so I don't think I'm addicted to it. I used to drink about five cups of tea a day, and to be honest I don't know whether that has more or less caffeine in it than a double espresso.
 
Best coffee i ever found is Kimbo Espresso from Naples Italy.

Like 2 Euro there but around $20 to get off amazon anywhere else. Delicious.

my most beloved espresso is the parana' one. i just found out that they have an organic version now too.
also ethiopian sidamo and harar coffee is great!


I didn’t follow the coffee path unfortunately. It’s sad but I only had a handful of great tasting cups of coffee. A few of them in a café in Vienna. I would love to have a great coffee setup as well, but currently I am still overwhelmed with my tea journey :D

Great to hear you found a Gushu that you like. Yunnan is a great location for tea anyway. Can you recommend one? I only had one Gushu, but it was a little too astringent for my taste. Maybe I just brewed it wrong, I don’t know, I didn’t have a lot of it.
Currently I am mostly drinking green tea and oolong. My morning usually starts with a matcha :)

my coffee setup is a burr-grinder, a kettle, a hario v60 drip filter and a cup. easy as it can get...

yeah, matcha is a real powerhouse (as the leaves are ground and drunken), so you get all the good stuff one needs for a happy day, well done! ;)

my top 3 beloved yunnan teas that are of high quality and pretty fairly priced are currently:

- Lu Zhen
- Da Jin Ya*
- Zi Jin Pu Erh

*hint: when trying the da jin ya, make sure to roll the buds with your fingers before brewing to let the water soak more easily into them. this makes all the difference from "nice, but a little light flavour" to "woohoo, awesome and makes me teadrunk too!" xD


Whoa, hold up. Coffee wasn't dreamt up by big pharma. It's natural; it's of the earth.

Of course, so is tobacco...

Edit: Also, I just now realized, I'm pretty sure I'm not drinking organic coffee. :(

just make sure to get the good organic one next time!
 
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People are overweight because their bodies have made excess fat to enable them to fast for longer.
Back when I was still pretty fat and fasted for 3 days for the first time I got really sick since the second day.
I would encourage almost any fat person to try out his "food reserves" like I did and see for himself how well it will serve him if he ever has to fast. I think that he will quickly realise that if that fat is for fasting his body did a pretty shitty job with it.

In fact people who can fast for long times without getting sick tend to be really slim. I think that in a real food scarcity the fat people would be the first to get in trouble and the last people standing would end up to be a few people who had thin and clean bodies when the food scarcity started.
I haven't seen anyone claiming it is here to be honest, just people saying it's not that bad for you.
The people who said that include me. I already said that coffee is not very bad for people's health. All I said is that coffee is slightly unhealthy and thus not worth the effort of trying to like it for people who do not like it. I guess that people have misunderstood what I said. I never suggested that people who do like coffee should stop with it. In fact I would drink coffee in moderation if I liked it.
 
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for educational purpose, here is a video about yunnan's old 'gushu' tea-trees.
as older tea bushes/trees tend to create more flavour in their buds/leaves, they are verry special and... awesome! <3

 
All I said is that coffee is slightly unhealthy and thus not worth the effort of trying to like it for people who do not like it. I guess that people have misunderstood what I said. I never suggested that people who do like coffee should stop with it. In fact I would drink coffee in moderation if I liked it.
I get the impression you tend to extremes. First, extremely unhealthy junk food lifestyle, now an extreme focus on "health". Extremes are mostly unhealthy, funnily enough, even when targeted at health. Take extreme hygiene: It seems to further allergies. Extreme skin care: perioral dermatitis. I could go on. Coffee, on the other hand, besides everything mentioned already, seems to alleviate consequences of a stroke... also, prevent alzheimers and type 2 diabetes, it seems. (All these studies indicators, but not proven beyond doubt, as usual in serious science. Type 2 diabetes seems to have a huge data basis, though.)
Another simple, but much overlooked truth: The body needs challenges from time to time. Physical ones, also food ones. It's built to cope, and some coping mechanisms run amok when not challenged.
There also doesn't seem much of a difference between the amount of my addiction to coffee and your addiction to fruit... so I guess I'm fine there, too.
I completely agree with you on the food and pharma industry however. I also concur with your above conclusion about coffee: Drink it if you like it, moderately. But you also told us it was unhealthy, so meh. Which, I guess, provoked the reactions you now see. (So that's the reason I tell you now that your healthy lifestyle looks unhealthy to me. ;P)
 
The difference between a coffee addiction and my fruit "addiction" is that I am not actually addicted to fruit, I can easily go a day (at least) without and will feel great that day. There are always less healthy foods to fall back on like vegetables or peanuts.

I am actually only as extreme as a lion living on meat or a cow living on grass. Humans are frugivores and for a human living on fruit is natural and normal.

For me the real extremists are people eating a "balanced" diet. Humans do not have a balanced physiology. Dogs and bears come closer to being balanced, they are mostly carnivorous but not as extremely so as lions or cats. I am not surprised at all that humans are the sickest species on Earth.

Like drinking another animal's milk through adulthood. What other animal does this? Why would we need a substance that is optimised for a cow and that we lost the ability to digest? To me this is utter madness. I used to be "allergic" to milk. Now I know that my "allergy" was really just me not being a baby anymore.
Same goes for meat. I find it madness that despite us having all the typical characteristics of plant eaters and no characteristic of meat eaters we think that we need meat, but we need to cook it and add plant based flavour to it first because we actually do not like the taste of meat. And we need to eat it dead, unlike real carnivorous who prefer their meat with the blood still flowing through it.
Yet fruit which has a perfect taste to us immediately is unnatural and unhealthy because of the sugar. If natural sugar is so unhealthy, then why are we optimised with our colour vision to find ripe fruit and with our taste buds to enjoy it? Is this a cruel prank or fatal mistake of nature? Or are humans, the sickest animals on Earth, the ones who do not know what is healthy for them?


I am not trying to insult people here or telling how they should live. I am just giving my opinion on the matter.
 
What makes you think humans are the sickest species on the planet? If we diagnosed deer or rats the same way we do people we'd probably find all kind of things wrong with them too, and try to medicate it out of them. Plus we're perhaps the only species that regularly lives for years after we've had children and fulfilled our genetic purpose, and as our bodies start to degrade, we find out stuff starts to go wrong.

Also, I like my meat to still have a blood that comes out when I cut into it, but my tastes are a little french in that respect at least. I do think I am eating more meat than I am genetically designed for, but when it tastes so nice, who am I to argue?
 
Lambda might sound a little extreme to us, but I guarantee he's healthier than I am.

That said, I'm going to stick to my balanced diet, because it hasn't killed me yet.
 
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The difference between a coffee addiction and my fruit "addiction" is that I am not actually addicted to fruit,

Fruit has sugar and sugar is highly addictive. I bet you can't go a month without.



There are always less healthy foods to fall back on like vegetables or peanuts.

By what metric are nuts and vegetables less healthy than fruits

Humans are frugivores and for a human living on fruit is natural and normal.

Wat....

For me the real extremists are people eating a "balanced" diet. Humans do not have a balanced physiology. Dogs and bears come closer to being balanced, they are mostly carnivorous but not as extremely so as lions or cats. I am not surprised at all that humans are the sickest species on Earth.

Wat.... So much there...that is just wrong...

Same goes for meat. I find it madness that despite us having all the typical characteristics of plant eaters and no characteristic of meat eaters we think that we need meat, but we need to cook it and add plant based flavour to it first because we actually do not like the taste of meat. And we need to eat it dead, unlike real carnivorous who prefer their meat with the blood still flowing through it.

Dude what? We are literally apex predators. Our front teeth are for tearing flesh as are the canines. We have eyes in the front of our head not the sides which is typical of predator/prey. We are one of the fastest animals on land and have huge amounts of endurance. We cook meat because we realized we are less apt to catching diseases if we do so.

Yet fruit which has a perfect taste to us immediately is unnatural and unhealthy because of the sugar. If natural sugar is so unhealthy, then why are we optimised with our colour vision to find ripe fruit and with our taste buds to enjoy it? Is this a cruel prank or fatal mistake of nature? Or are humans, the sickest animals on Earth, the ones who do not know what is healthy for them?

Color vision was not for that purpose.
 
The difference between a coffee addiction and my fruit "addiction" is that I am not actually addicted to fruit, I can easily go a day (at least) without and will feel great that day. There are always less healthy foods to fall back on like vegetables or peanuts.

I am actually only as extreme as a lion living on meat or a cow living on grass. Humans are frugivores and for a human living on fruit is natural and normal.

For me the real extremists are people eating a "balanced" diet. Humans do not have a balanced physiology. Dogs and bears come closer to being balanced, they are mostly carnivorous but not as extremely so as lions or cats. I am not surprised at all that humans are the sickest species on Earth.

Like drinking another animal's milk through adulthood. What other animal does this? Why would we need a substance that is optimised for a cow and that we lost the ability to digest? To me this is utter madness. I used to be "allergic" to milk. Now I know that my "allergy" was really just me not being a baby anymore.
Same goes for meat. I find it madness that despite us having all the typical characteristics of plant eaters and no characteristic of meat eaters we think that we need meat, but we need to cook it and add plant based flavour to it first because we actually do not like the taste of meat. And we need to eat it dead, unlike real carnivorous who prefer their meat with the blood still flowing through it.
Yet fruit which has a perfect taste to us immediately is unnatural and unhealthy because of the sugar. If natural sugar is so unhealthy, then why are we optimised with our colour vision to find ripe fruit and with our taste buds to enjoy it? Is this a cruel prank or fatal mistake of nature? Or are humans, the sickest animals on Earth, the ones who do not know what is healthy for them?


I am not trying to insult people here or telling how they should live. I am just giving my opinion on the matter.

Dude, what's your sect name?
 
Our front teeth are for tearing flesh as are the canines.
Incisors are not suited for tearing flesh. Tearing flesh requires pointy teeth like those of carnivorous mammals, biting off fruit requires incisors. All we have are incisors for biting off fruit and molars for chewing. Our canines are also just incisors. Chimpansees have real canines unlike us, and even they live on fruit and eat only less than 2% meat, and only the males hunt.

Also predators cannot move their jaw sideways because that way their jaw is stronger, preventing it from dislocating while they are ripping flesh. Our jaws can move sideways because we need to chew and do not need to rip flesh that much anyway. No carnivorous mammal is even able to chew his food, but all plant eating mammals chew their food like us.
We have eyes in the front of our head not the sides which is typical of predator/prey.
We are no prey animal either. Our flat feet and thick legs makes us slow. Just like other mammals with flat feet and thick straight legs (all of which are plant eaters) we are neither prey not predator.
We are one of the fastest animals on land and have huge amounts of endurance.
Which prey animal do we outrun? Humans have great endurance when walking or standing, but that is typical for plant eating mammals. Carnivorous mammals however need to lie down all day because they walk on their toes which causes their legs to be bent which is very inefficient with walking and standing.
We cook meat because we realized we are less apt to catching diseases if we do so.
We cook meat because unlike every carnivorous mammal we can easily get diseases from meat. We lack the immunity that real carnivores have. Why do we not cook our fruit? Because our body is made to reward us for fruit eating. Fruit is safe and tasty right out of nature because we are made for it. We are the only animals who need to cook their food because we are the only animal that eats unnaturally. Would cows need to cook their meat? Maybe add some grass flavour? Maybe so, but they do not need to cook their grass because no animal needs to cook their natural food.

Color vision was not for that purpose.
What is it's purpose? It does make us the best finder of ripe fruit out of all animals, on a shared #1 spot with other fruit eaters like every other primate. It also makes us crappy hunters, we lack good sense of smell and we lack good hearing and thanks to colour vision we also cannot have night vision. Predators like lions can smell which of their prey animals have certain diseases which helps them separate good prey from bad prey before they even start chasing. We cannot do that, but unlike carnivorous mammals we can use our exceptionally good colour vision to separate ripe fruit from unripe fruit before we even start climbing the tree that it is in.
Dude, what's your sect name?
I do not need other people's approval for my diet. Therefore despite my diet being unconventional I do not need the assistance of a sect. In fact many of my fat friends disagree with me on dietary issues. But I do not talk much to friends about diet. It gets on people's nerves quickly if I do. I save the talking for forums filled with strangers.
 
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Incisors are not suited for tearing flesh. Tearing flesh requires pointy teeth like those of carnivorous mammals, biting off fruit requires incisors. All we have are incisors for biting off fruit and molars for chewing. Our canines are also just incisors. Chimpansees have real canines unlike us, and even they live on fruit and eat only less than 2% meat, and only the males hunt.

Also predators cannot move their jaw sideways because that way their jaw is stronger, preventing it from dislocating while they are ripping flesh. Our jaws can move sideways because we need to chew and do not need to rip flesh that much anyway. No carnivorous mammal is even able to chew his food, but all plant eating mammals chew their food like us.

We are no prey animal either. Our flat feet and thick legs makes us slow. Just like other mammals with flat feet and thick straight legs (all of which are plant eaters) we are neither prey not predator.
Quite, our early development of butchery and cooking in our evolutionary past have reset us to be built rather more like the plant eaters compared to our modern brethren.
Which prey animal do we outrun? Humans have great endurance when walking or standing, but that is typical for plant eating mammals. Carnivorous mammals however need to lie down all day because they walk on their toes which causes their legs to be bent which is very inefficient with walking and standing.
I'm pretty sure I can outrun a sheep or a goat, even adapted as I am to getting food from the shops and not actually being trained to hunt any more, even on uneven ground where the hoof is an advantage. I've had to chase sheep back to their field before now, at a mere canter. I might even be able to chase down an uninjured cow after a few hours, though that's untested. Of course, the real question is, can I chase down an animal after I've got one of my new fangled spears in its side?

We cook meat because unlike every carnivorous mammal we can easily get diseases from meat. We lack the immunity that real carnivores have.
Carnivorous animals that eat their meat fresh don't have to worry because the immune system of the animal will have kept bugs at a safe level until it was very recently killed. We can still eat meat raw in the main, though I wouldn't trust chicken personally, largely due to the modern farming methods which have over-stressed the animals and made their meat suspicious. But cooking the meat which I perhaps should reiterate is something we've been doing long enough to be visible in our modern genetic makeup, makes it easier to chew with our molars.

Recent history shows us that we did feed cows on meat, fwiw, and that didn't end well, although it's perhaps significant that we fed them on spinal column and brain material ground up, which was nearly the perfect breeding environment for a genetic disease.
 
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