Do You Think The 3Ds Will Be Able Run Homebrew?

[SomeGuy99]

Even if Miamoto don't want to see homebrew on its hardware, his techies are too lame to get security things right (see marcan blog for more info)

So I voted within a year

Isn't Miyamoto basically just a mascot for the company nowadays? I'm fairly sure he has very little say as to what goes on at ninty.

Haha! Ninty! Thanks for teleporting me back to the UK, circa 1998.

Actually, he's been a manager/producer since the 1980's - and in addition, Nintendo champion all their staff now. Read a few of the 'Iwata asks' interviews.

There's a lot of stuff coming out now about the complex working arrangements within Nintendo. Miyamoto is team player basically.

 

[amishaziz]

These topics are funny.

Everything can be hacked it is just knowing the (work around) code.

 

[sebt3]

Everything can be hacked it is just knowing the (work around) code.

You are funny. Do you have even a vague idea of the skillz requiered to hack these hardware ?

 

[Username]

Everything can be hacked it is just knowing the (work around) code.

You are funny. Do you have even a vague idea of the skillz requiered to hack these hardware ?

Guys don't worry, I know how to linackz, this can be haxored I think it's a linackz arm machine uses ubuntu.

 

[quote]

We should get RedBaron in on this, I think he managed to hack his JXD .

 

[amishaziz]

I'll get my hacksaw, he said I was funny


EDIT: don't feed the idiot.

 

[hosant]

Everything can be hacked it is just knowing the (work around) code.

You are funny. Do you have even a vague idea of the skillz requiered to hack these hardware ?

I mostly lack the patience.

 

[MrMoneybags]

These topics are funny.

Everything can be hacked it is just knowing the (work around) code.

That's why internet based DRM would be ideal because it's pretty hard to get around the internet. As Xbox Live banning has showed us, unless you want to cut all wireless communication from the device, then Nintendo (or their servers) is going to know what you're doing and could cripple your device or fine you or whatever. That's part of the reason why I think Nintendo is doing this "online all the time" methodology. The problem is whether it becomes an invasion of privacy. No one knows exactly how Microsoft bans people, but I think it would be an invasion of privacy if they're looking at what games you are playing and what actions you're performing. It's an extremely fine line with all of this, and I don't think Nintendo or anyone can ever fully prevent piracy from occurring, but it's a helluva lot easier with the internet and wireless/online gameplay. By the way, I do think it has gotten far more difficult to prate games, and now it's nearly impossible to fully pirate games since many companies are implementing "login to access multiplayer" type technologies. But I'm interested to see what Nintendo does with their DRM.

 

[finty]

These topics are funny.

Everything can be hacked it is just knowing the (work around) code.

That's why internet based DRM would be ideal because it's pretty hard to get around the internet. As Xbox Live banning has showed us, unless you want to cut all wireless communication from the device, then Nintendo (or their servers) is going to know what you're doing and could cripple your device or fine you or whatever. That's part of the reason why I think Nintendo is doing this "online all the time" methodology. The problem is whether it becomes an invasion of privacy. No one knows exactly how Microsoft bans people, but I think it would be an invasion of privacy if they're looking at what games you are playing and what actions you're performing. It's an extremely fine line with all of this, and I don't think Nintendo or anyone can ever fully prevent piracy from occurring, but it's a helluva lot easier with the internet and wireless/online gameplay. By the way, I do think it has gotten far more difficult to prate games, and now it's nearly impossible to fully pirate games since many companies are implementing "login to access multiplayer" type technologies. But I'm interested to see what Nintendo does with their DRM.

Your posts read like a rambling coke fueled nut with only a vague idea of what he is talking about.

 

[Jourdy288]

These topics are funny.

Everything can be hacked it is just knowing the (work around) code.

That's why internet based DRM would be ideal because it's pretty hard to get around the internet. As Xbox Live banning has showed us, unless you want to cut all wireless communication from the device, then Nintendo (or their servers) is going to know what you're doing and could cripple your device or fine you or whatever. That's part of the reason why I think Nintendo is doing this "online all the time" methodology. The problem is whether it becomes an invasion of privacy. No one knows exactly how Microsoft bans people, but I think it would be an invasion of privacy if they're looking at what games you are playing and what actions you're performing. It's an extremely fine line with all of this, and I don't think Nintendo or anyone can ever fully prevent piracy from occurring, but it's a helluva lot easier with the internet and wireless/online gameplay. By the way, I do think it has gotten far more difficult to prate games, and now it's nearly impossible to fully pirate games since many companies are implementing "login to access multiplayer" type technologies. But I'm interested to see what Nintendo does with their DRM.

I'm pretty sure Fox News is going to sue for patent infringement in 3...2...

 

[yannv]

Seriously, what is the reasoning behind forcing me to become a pirate if I want to keep my homebrew?

Probably just about as reasonable as that behind Sony shutting me out of being their customer (neither PS Store nor new game discs will work, as well as other things, like remote play on my Vaio) for using a function they promoted and sold me (yes, I run Linux on my PS3). And when confronted about it they lie and imply that I 1) don't enjoy games and 2) am a threat to their "IP", and to top it off, that this all is a gain for every PS3 user.

 

[fearofshorts]

I don't know why everyone thinks that online storage is very secure.
Look at the iPhone/iPod touch. It now uses online verification, in combination with a unique hardware-based key for each device, which results in the OS being impossible to install without Apple's go-ahead.
So guess what the community did?
They simply set up a program which would broadcast out the ID and receive back the code. Then they could feed that key to the iDevice for an install.

I probably got a lot of that wrong, but you should be able to get my point. With online DRM, all it takes is a man-in-the-middle attack.

Ok, so you might need a bit of reverse engineering and maybe (in the worst case scenario) a few years of brute-forcing the encryption algorithm. But that's no different from standard system hacking anyway, is it?

I think that if they do go for an online-storage only method it won't be long before people release a device which fits in one of the carterage slots and just pretends to be a wifi-hotspot connected to Nintendo.com.

 

[dnlgreenwood]

anyone have any idea about an action replay or games n music like device for the 3ds? the gnm and some versions of the action replay play homebrew... why isnt datel getting sued up the...?

The hightened security on the 3DS will probably make homebrewers even more determined faik. 

I hope there will be at least a hardware mod that can allow homebrew. I wouldnt be the least bit affraid to crack open a 3DS and install a modchip or something like that.

anyway, I think its unfair for nintendo to not allow homebrew. homebrew brings more out of a device, especially a device like the ds or wii. the wii does not support media or dvd playback, but with homebrew, my wii turned into what my DVD player used to be... plus emulators and wii games.

how ling did it take for the DS to be hacked? I can't remember.

I actually dont use my ps3 slim that much because it CANT run homebrew like my wii can. occasionally i play a good ps3 game, but thats about it... and playing ps1 games on it isnt the same... and its incompatible with ps2 games. srsly! their excuse is that the ps3 is for ps3 games. then why do you let me play ps1 games? to make the system more affordable, I guess. but then why do they have software to run ps2 games a the ps store, and why does it not work with the ps3 slim? urghh... cant they listen to what WE want?

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

If someone wants it cracked - it will be cracked. plain and simple. Spending huge amounts of money attempting to combat "piracy" is a waste of time. All it does it make it difficult for the rest of us to properly enjoy the devices/Software we purchase. Take assassin's creed II for example. Ubisoft's "uncrackable" online DRM. A few months later, and it's worked around - an application that simulates the responses from the server while playing the game. A few days or weeks after that, and you've got a fully cracked game that can be played by anyone, anywhere, at any time, without the need for extremely silly internet DRM. One of the reasons the PC market is quickly losing ground when it comes to gaming is that DRM is slowly becoming more and more strict to the point where just installing games is becoming a hassle. AFAIK No DRM has been able to prevent piracy. This includes the firmware and software on a device. EVERY major gaming device EVER has been hacked, cracked, and manipulated. Games will, and always will - until the end of time - be pirated. Adding more complication, hassle, or "protection" to games or devices just makes them less fun, and really makes them sort of pointless to purchase. That's why I like these open source handhelds. The community can port different applications, games, and emulators. And if you know how to program software? Bingo! Anything you want can be on your device, with no limits or boundaries (aside from hardware requirements)

Will the 3DS be the end of software piracy for Nintendo?

No. A month after the device launches, it's games will start to appear on torrent sites. A few months later - unsigned code. A few weeks after that - pirated games.

Will it annoy the people in the homebrew community that just want to use the device they purchased, without being impeded by "Protection"?

Yes. But eventually - like with most devices - the 3DS will be running whatever anyone wants.

When it comes to cracking software - If it's got bits and bytes, it'll do what you like.

 

[Exophase]

Spending huge amounts of money to combat piracy can delay the effects of piracy (and very often has, sometimes by years). Saying that it doesn't matter when something gets cracked if it gets cracked is naive. The difference between being able to run something from day 1 and say, day 60 can be immense to companies, never mind the difference due to something taking years. There are platforms that still haven't been breached. Saying that it difficulty of circumvention doesn't effect adoption is also not sensible - for instance, if you need to use external hardware or perform a hardware mod I guarantee you less people will do it.

People are way too overconfident about exploits, they think it's a force of nature when it's more a force of luck. There are absolutely no guarantees when anticipating mistakes.

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Spending huge amounts of money to combat piracy can delay the effects of piracy (and very often has, sometimes by years). Saying that it doesn't matter when something gets cracked if it gets cracked is naive. The difference between being able to run something from day 1 and say, day 60 can be immense to companies, never mind the difference due to something taking years. There are platforms that still haven't been breached. Saying that it difficulty of circumvention doesn't effect adoption is also not sensible - for instance, if you need to use external hardware or perform a hardware mod I guarantee you less people will do it.

People are way too overconfident about exploits, they think it's a force of nature when it's more a force of luck. There are absolutely no guarantees when anticipating mistakes.

I'm just saying it's an impediment to the end user - Especially in the case of PC games or software where you have to swap CDs, register online, use Always-on internet verifications systems (ubisoft). Not everyone wants to pirate games.

And to be honest, with the money they've spent developing the DRM and anti-piracy measures they've probably spent more or less what they'd have lost due to piracy.

 

[Exophase]

It's true that it can be a PITA for PC games. Sometimes it's not a very big deal though. It all depends on how reasonable the company is willing to be. It's a big tradeoff. Sometimes people pirate just because the DRM is so awful.

But for consoles, especially handhelds, this sort of thing isn't really an issue (or at least hasn't been, and I doubt it will be).

You can't actually claim they're spending more on DRM than what they'd lose due to piracy without any kind of statistical data. Companies are stupid, they're way more likely to have researched this than you have. And we're talking about something for an entire hardware platform (3DS), where a first party is probably going to sell several dozen million games then collect licensing fees on another several dozen million of third party titles. I doubt whatever effort they're taking against piracy looks financially unsound to them.

 

[fearofshorts]

If someone wants it cracked - it will be cracked.
...
Will the 3DS be the end of software piracy for Nintendo?
No. A month after the device launches, it's games will start to appear on torrent sites. A few months later - unsigned code. A few weeks after that - pirated games.
...
When it comes to cracking software - If it's got bits and bytes, it'll do what you like.

Have you heard of the Capcom Play System 3?
It was released in 1997. It took TEN YEARS to crack the encryption.

And look at the PS3- even though it's massively popular, it has only JUST been cracked.

And then there's the DSi! A Nintendo handheld which HAS NOT BEEN CRACKED. We can get it to play DS Roms and homebrew, but we cannot get access to the actual DSi-hardware: just a hardware-locked pseudo-VM Nintendo set up called "DS mode".

I'll ask again. Why the hell does everyone expect the 3DS to be cracked so easily? It may be possible, but if Nintendo wants to keep us out for a few years they will.
Best case scenario: someone finds a way - probably just using the DSi 1.4 bypassing method of feeding the DS legitimate rom identifier information - to use DS flashcarts on it within a few months.

And another thing- it's not going to be easy to start off with, even if it is cracked quickly. Not many people remember the first few years of Slot-2 flashcarts and PassMe. Huge, bulking devices which stuck out a nautical mile on either end of the DS and had shit-all compatibility. Yeah, enjoy lugging that around for a couple of years.

 

[indask8]

Have you heard of the Capcom Play System 3?
It was released in 1997. It took TEN YEARS to crack the encryption.

Suicide batteries does not help to easily hack that kind of hardware...

If it's what they've used on 3DS (or something similar... suicide flash chip)...

About the thread, I think we'll see 3DS flashcarts for DS games in DS Mode very fast.

The 3DS mode itself may need much more time to discover it's secrets.

 

[MrMoneybags]

If someone wants it cracked - it will be cracked.
...
Will the 3DS be the end of software piracy for Nintendo?
No. A month after the device launches, it's games will start to appear on torrent sites. A few months later - unsigned code. A few weeks after that - pirated games.
...
When it comes to cracking software - If it's got bits and bytes, it'll do what you like.

Have you heard of the Capcom Play System 3?
It was released in 1997. It took TEN YEARS to crack the encryption.

And look at the PS3- even though it's massively popular, it has only JUST been cracked.

And then there's the DSi! A Nintendo handheld which HAS NOT BEEN CRACKED. We can get it to play DS Roms and homebrew, but we cannot get access to the actual DSi-hardware: just a hardware-locked pseudo-VM Nintendo set up called "DS mode".

I'll ask again. Why the hell does everyone expect the 3DS to be cracked so easily? It may be possible, but if Nintendo wants to keep us out for a few years they will.
Best case scenario: someone finds a way - probably just using the DSi 1.4 bypassing method of feeding the DS legitimate rom identifier information - to use DS flashcarts on it within a few months.

And another thing- it's not going to be easy to start off with, even if it is cracked quickly. Not many people remember the first few years of Slot-2 flashcarts and PassMe. Huge, bulking devices which stuck out a nautical mile on either end of the DS and had shit-all compatibility. Yeah, enjoy lugging that around for a couple of years.

Something people also are missing is the ease it is to fully crack the system. What makes the new PS3 hack so ironic in a sense is the ease it is to "crack" the system compared to the Wii's crack and the Xbox 360's JTAG crack. Sure you might have to do the power/eject thing single time you want to use the exploit for the system, but it beats potentially bricking your system from rewriting software, it beats voiding your warranty, and it beats having to open up your system in general. What deters people away from flashing Xbox 360 drives and JTAG'ing them is the online play factor and the warranty factor.

I do think that online services can do wonders, especially if they have another encryption method beyond the PS3's. What's so funny about the PSJailbreak is how simple of an exploit it is and how Sony shot themselves in the foot by making it so easy. Of course it wasn't Sony's fault that the guy stole Sony's code and is in a way giving the world access to it, but the PS3 encryption still hasn't been cracked and I bet the PS4's encryption will be 100x tougher. With the FCC's broadband plan and the world pushing to higher speed internet, it'll be a less tough decision for companies to require internet access when it's becoming so cheap and available in so many more places than it was a few years ago.

Though Nintendo has made some dumb mistakes in some of their decisions in general (not just involving piracy), they aren't that stupid to make it easy as pie. I'm not saying it won't be hacked but it isn't as easy as it used to be in a way. If Nintendo REAALLLYYYY wanted to combat piracy then they'd bring back proprietary storage devices like the Gamecube mini-disc, but that would put salt in the wounds Nintendo felt after big time developers like Square dumped Nintendo for the PlayStation since the Nintendo 64 was so expensive to develop for and there wasn't as much capacity in the cartridges as there was on a CD. I do think online security will be the way of the future for home consoles, but I don't think the 3DS will have it. What I do think the 3DS will have is the new standard for portable system security, but that's just my opinion.