Development Netbook

[TheGoodDoktor]

Hi there

I get the impression that you really need a Linux based PC to develop for the Pandora. Since I only have a Macbook (with unfortunately not enough free HD space for virtual PC or Bootcamp partition).

I was wondering whether anyone knows of a Netbook they can recommend for Pandora Dev and which Linux distro. to use. Doesn't one use the same or similar PVR part?

Has anyone else tried using a netbook? When I say netbook I mean something like the Acer Aspire One or MSI Wind, just to clarify.

I'm sorry if this has already been covered but I did have a quick search and found nothing.

Cheers,
TheGoodDoktor.

P.S. I'm also looking for an excuse to buy a Netbook!

 

[Kimundi]

Well, the main reasons to develop on another machine than the pandora itself would be:
-higher display resolution and size
-normal keyboard
-better system (faster processor, more cores, more ram)
-much hd space

Thus a Netbook would be just an half-assed solution (slightly faster, identical or slightly bigger resolution)

 

[Squidge]

You don't need a Linux PC (virtual or otherwise) to be able to develop for the Pandora.

If you have a compiler that can generate Linux ARM ELF executables, thats all you need. There are ports of GCC for MacOS if you want a free compiler.

 

[darkblu]

if you're searching for a netbook, i'd say go for something with gma500 in it - SGX 535 vs pandora's SGX530 - doubled number of USSEs in the gma part, presumably fatter bandwidths too.

re the dev environment - what's wrong with osx? macports offers practically everything you'd need for arm cross-development - binutils, gcc, etc.

 

[ldesnogu]

IIUC SGX535 has extremely poor support on Linux, so GMA500 + Linux should be avoided.

 

[TheGoodDoktor]

Thanks for the replies.
I think I wrongly made the assumption that I would have to use Linux at some point. In my experience there has always been some little command line util that you have to use somewhere along the line (the PS2 was like this in the early days).
Another reason was that I wanted to get my game running on a Linux PC using the ImgTech GL ES emulator just to make sure I've covered as many bases as possible before trying to get it to work on the Pandora.
I still have no idea when I'll be able to write GLES apps for the Pandora as there seems to be either no movement or no info on that front recently.

darkblu: thanks for the info on MacPorts, I didn't know about it. I do use OSX as my primary dev environment, I just wanted something a little closer to the Pandora as my Mac version is GL.

Cheers,
TheGoodDoktor

 

[ldesnogu]

Honestly I have a hard time believing you can do all you want from a Windows machine. Even compiling the kernel can be a nightmare with Cygwin.
On the other hand if all you want is basic stuff with SDL, that seems doable

 

[MWeston]

I've never really liked Cygwin in my limited experience with it. It seemed like you had to do so much to get things to build within it and it was just easier to run a full Linux OS instead.

My compromise to using full Linux is to run VMware software with SUSE or Ubuntu installed to virtual drives. It works quite well other than not seeing SD cards so I can't format ext2 partitions with it or load images directly to the card, but that's minor. I just boot Ubuntu on a CD when I need complete access of the hardware on my laptop or FTP files to my Windows OS and load the cards from there.

VMware only cost me $189 but of course there is no satisfaction of having a shiny new computer to play with since this is all virtual so I guess that's up to you.

 

[Exophase]

Honestly I have a hard time believing you can do all you want from a Windows machine. Even compiling the kernel can be a nightmare with Cygwin.
On the other hand if all you want is basic stuff with SDL, that seems doable

I've compiled the kernel (for Wiz) in Cygwin. It wasn't that big of a deal although a couple things did need to be changed to get it working.

For the normal kind of development that almost everyone will be doing it works fine if you have the suitable cross compiler (been using Open2x's)

 

[ldesnogu]

I've compiled the kernel (for Wiz) in Cygwin. It wasn't that big of a deal although a couple things did need to be changed to get it working.

A couple that seemed easy to you, an experienced developper
QUOTE
For the normal kind of development that almost everyone will be doing it works fine if you have the suitable cross compiler (been using Open2x's)

Yes for sure, and everyone will be able to install every needed libraries and languages on Windows (Python, Lua, boost, and so on).

I never said developing on Windows is not possible. My point is that it's probably easier to run Linux (using VMware player as Michael pointed) for a beginner and better anyway for the long term, with the added benefit that one will be able to test on x86 Linux before cross-compiling to ARM Linux. Of course I'm biased, but I developed for months command-line stuff with VC++, then Cygwin and then Linux, and for sure I was much more efficient running Linux.

 

[senquack]

You don't need to buy VMWare.. VirtualBox is free and does everything you'd need:
http://www.virtualbox.org/


Last I checked I think it has a Mac version (as long as you are running an Intel CPU)

 

[TheGoodDoktor]

Virtualisation was my first choice but I'm a bit pushed for HD space, any idea how much I'll need? I guess I could always use a USB drive but then things get a bit cumbersome.
Also I bet I won't be able to get the ImgTech GLES emulator working using virtualisation.

 

[Exophase]

A couple that seemed easy to you, an experienced developper

Fair, but why would an inexperienced developer be compiling Linux for Pandora?

Yes for sure, and everyone will be able to install every needed libraries and languages on Windows (Python, Lua, boost, and so on).

They'd be built for ARM/Pandora, not for Windows. The build process should be exactly the same as it is on Linux, barring whatever host dependencies might come up (makes sense for building Linux, for other things? I don't know).

Personally, I've developed on Linux for a few years now (at work) and cross-compile on Cygwin, and do native Windows apps on mingw/msys. Cygwin can be a pain in the ass sometimes but it's manageable.

I'm tempted to finally move to Linux (or at least dual boot) for some other reasons though.

 

[Klaus]

If you are low on diskspace, some external HDD will be way cheaper than a netbook, just go with that and a run Linux in VirtualBox or similar. On the other hand MacOS is as Unix-like as Linux, so you should be able to get all of the necessary tools. Especially if you want to use OpenGL that would be much easier as most virtual machines don't handle 3D-acceleration too well.

 

[darkblu]

IIUC SGX535 has extremely poor support on Linux, so GMA500 + Linux should be avoided.

true, gma500 was borderline unusable for desktop gl2 last time i used it under hardy heron. one can hope that tungsten would eventually get their act together, though. also, maybe they or intel will release a lean es2 edge some day .. bah, who am i kidding.

 

[torpor]

I have an Acer Aspire One that I've pimped with an extra SSD drive (32gigs instead of the built-in 8), extra RAM (1.5gigs) and Bluetooth .. its an awesome little Linux development machine. I'm currently running Ubuntu on it - but here's a tip: don't use anything other than Ubuntu 8.04 if you get an Aspire One - Ubuntu 8.10 and higher broke hardware acceleration on Intel chipsets, alas.. still works fine in 8.04 though this won't get fixed until after Jaunty leaves beta ... so you need to use 8.04 on Aspire One if you want 3D acceleration.

Anyway, just my two cents worth. I look forward to using my Aspire one to code directly for the Pandora one of these days .. and btw, I use my Aspire one just fine on a 24" monitor.

 

[White Flame]

Just SSH into your Pandora from your Mac.