Commercial Development A Good Or Bad Idea On This Platform?

[centipede]

Hi all.

I'm working to become a game developer (actually using mostly open source tools, but that is besides the point). After having been looking around this platform and this forum for a while, it is still hard for me to figure out what kind of environment this is.

Would it be considered bad ethics to issue games (in the $10-$25 price range) for the GP2X or will developers not adhering to a "free source, no cost" code by stoned at daylight?

In case it is fine with the audience, the next question is: Is there an audience? How many sold units are there, and how many are sold just to play emulated/ported games and nothing else.

Hope somebody has a few insights on the matter.

Regards
Rene Jensen
Vinstrup, Denmark
Free material on: AtomicMonsterGirls.net

 

[jcooper1314@sbcglobal.net]

Having commercial games sort of ruins the 2x's reputation as an open source console. I however wouldn't mind, but with all the free stuff available, I really don't feel the need to spend money. I use mine mostly for emus and the like.

 

[Orkie]

The problem with commerical development on the GP2X is that nobody is really sure how many copies you'd sell.

Most people are purely obsessed with emulators (and emulators do tend to destroy the homebrew/comercial developer's efforts). And then there are a hardcore group of "we must have everything for free" fanatics who can get quite nasty over the suggestion of selling something.

Another thing that is slightly concerning is that people are happy to pirate thousands of ROMs, so would they also be willing to pirate anything you have released? I don't know, but it's something to think about.

I do think it's worth a try (I'm going to), but don't rely on the gamble playing off

 

[Ravnos]

The best person to ask around here would probably be dodgyville. He released his Retrovirus RTS commercially for a small fee (10 Euros or something like that, pretty reasonable IMO). His experience in the matter might point you in the right direction.

Personally, I don't know how big the market here would be for large scale commercial games, but a good indie game could do ok at a reasonable price.

 

[Zeladin]

I don't see a problem with commercial games, especially if they are high quality. And there's no way commercial software threatens Open-source... I mean free vs 25E.

I does threaten to attract developers to actually selling their skills, rather than producing the free open-source stuff, but er... that's just sort of the way the world works, people like money - like, to buy food, development equipment etc... As someone who is studying Computer engineering, I would like to think at the end of it I would get a paid job in development rather than working in a supermarket by day, and developing free software by night...

If you were producing decent games, with good quality control, and support... Well, its worth paying for. As to whether you'll get enough customers to make it commercially viable, well that's a different matter isn't it.

As long as you're not breaking and licence agreements with all those open source development tools...*

Edit; *I of course having more interesting things to do with my time, don't tend to read these licences - unless I suspect the software might want to install spyware/adware, so I don't really know what kind of issues you might face on that level.

 

[PokeParadox]

Also Apex design on Payback.

I think while most people here don't even blink when using ROMs, they do respect commercial games that are released. Make sure you release a demo since trying before buying is necessary.

 

[Julius]

As already said, it is kind of hard to compete with thousands of high quality emulated games available for "free" basicly.
But if you do a type of game that isn't really available on the platforms emulated so far (mostly 3D games that really need the 3D aspect and are not 2D Games in 3D), you will have an audience of interested buyers. "Payback" would be an example of that. But the downside is (again Payback is a good example) that with such a specialized type of game your potential audience also gets much smaller, which is already not that big to begin with (maybe 50.000 in total).
Add to that a retail price above the "magical hurt limit" of $9.99 (at least thats what I figure the "just buy it" reflex limit is currently at, but I might be wrong), and you are not going to sell many copies.

Oh and there is really a strong dislike of DRM in this comunity, so if your game is cheap enough you will loose more sales by strongly copy-protecting the game than by a few potential buyers who pirate the game.
In addition to that an easy way to download and pay for (with Paypal for example) is a must (and easy re-download if once payed for).

 

[___]

We have a few commercial titles as mentioned before. Also, the ethics about pirating games are quite strict. The non-existant torrent tracker features a crapload of roms but no commercial gp2x games will be released there, as ppl want to ensure that devs will not be damaged. Also I think lots of people appreciate commercial games aswell as they expect the games to have a totally different concept than freeware games (which tend to be shorter but have more replayability value...).

 

[nickspoon]

Add to that a retail price above the "magical hurt limit" of $9.99 (at least thats what I figure the "just buy it" reflex limit is currently at, but I might be wrong), and you are not going to sell many copies.

This "magical hurt limit" is quite a problem in the GP2X scenario. You have a small audience, you have no idea how many copies you'll sell. If you sell only 200, that's $2000ish. Taking into account development time, your development team and cost of equipment, it starts to become completely not worth your while.

I'm currently in development stages of my commercial venture, but I'm not optimistic on its success. As such, I'd have to price reasonably high to see much return - I'm considering about £9, which is approximately $17, far above the "magical hurt limit".

 

[moz]

discuss with Evil Dragon and Craigix the "financails" of wether the gp2x is financially viable for selling as they helped out with payback i think.

if the software is worth buying, i'll buy it

 

[centipede]

I appreciate all your answers which already now has given me a very good clue about the scene. I'm honestly tempted to take the plunge.

My apologies if I gave the impression that I am a money seeking bastard! Usually I'm thought of equally much as an anti-capitalistic as a pro-open-source person. But being a merchant of self-made games is rather an old dream of mine. Anything above 10 sold games of each title would make me a happy guy.

I already have pushed a lot of free material (textures etc.) in various indie and foss circles, and on atomicmonstergirls.net I will always continue to do so, including my game-engine and tools. But not artwork which is specific to a single game. That's from my personal life, not my public one B)

 

[Goemon4]

imo, if a game is as good as Payback, Retrovirus, or Vektar then yeah its worth it, but if its going to be like a jazzed up shmup or a puzzle game, it isnt, if its liek completely original and amazing then yeah go for it (release like a beta or something asking for opinions) but on an open source handheld (imo) they arent the best places for commercialism, but if its just an amazing game, im sure people would pay for it (i know raising the standards pretty high )

 

[LordFu]

discuss with Evil Dragon and Craigix the "financails" of wether the gp2x is financially viable for selling as they helped out with payback i think.

if the software is worth buying, i'll buy it

Yep, Evil Dragon and Craigx would have the best information on you questions. The developers of Payback and Retrovirus could certainly relate to you their experiences with commercial development, as mentioned above.

I really don't think pirating is an issue with commercial games developed for the 2x system, and I don't recall any backlash against the commercial games currently available, for not being FOSS/OSS. I call FUD on those two issues.

 

[Perky_Goth]

Games are non-functional software, so there is big difference to normal software with regards to the ethic of making it proprietary.
I wouldn't advise you to expect much money from it. Other than that, there isn't anything to add to what was said.

 

[centipede]

Good harvest of opinions, thank you all. Now I'll put my head on the stove for a couple of days and try to evaluate pro and con.

Seen from my point of I get a platform where the SDK is free and very close to something I already know well, but I don't get a very large audience at all. Right now the prospect of making a first breakthrough into the console game world right here where the wall is thin (I live my life in a multimedia linux environment) seems attractive. Once a handful of games have been made, I can later on focus on a PocketPC port or something similar.

Good points from the thread:

o) Don't use DRM. I can't stand that myself.
o) Release a demo. Get peoples opinions as to quality and fairness of price etc.
o) Try to get close to the $10 hurt-threshold
o) Infinite download possibility of a title, once paid for (good, well-functioning website)

Besides that, I will stick to the genres that I like personally: Edutainment and adventure games, often in historic settings.

 

[hitbyambulance]

if it's fun to play and either lasts a while or (better yet) replayable, i have no problem with paying for it.

 

[Julius]

Maybe I should add that I ment this 10$ limit is something that makes you not really think twice about buying.

For example the commercial game WindandWater sceduled to be released soon is a game I plan to buy. It had a nice quality demo, and the gameplay is unique enough to be not a clone of a game available on a emulator. And it doesn't have any DRM.
It is NOT a must have title though, and that's why I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it (well in my case actually 10€).

But if there was a must have title (kind of like Payback I guess, but I personally don't like GTA style games), I would be willing to pay more (like ~20€ish).

 

[Gruntfuggly]

As I see it, if what you produce is worth paying for, this community *will* pay for it. But as others have already pointed out, it may not be the largest market. Maybe the way to look at it is, if your stuff is good enough for *some* people to pay for, then it's at least a way of showing software houses that you've got the talent to produce something worthwhile and therefore get you a job.

At the end of the day, you're not going to become rich producing software for the GP2X, but you might cover some of your costs, and get your foot on the ladder...

 

[Godmil]

If you go for it, good luck. I look forward to seeing what you come up with

 

[Orkie]

I really don't think pirating is an issue with commercial games developed for the 2x system, and I don't recall any backlash against the commercial games currently available, for not being FOSS/OSS. I call FUD on those two issues.

No, they are true. I got loads of insults hurled at me by a fair few people over at gp32spain when Burokku was announced.