Battery charger

[jontheramer2]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but what I really miss for the Pandora is an external battery charger; found this thread; 






but would love to hear something official for the Pyra as it's annoying how to not being able to charge an empty battery while going out with the Pandora... 

 

[Klumpen]

Well, you could always buy a second device.


It's weird to see such an old thread of our now resident troll hakmanplayer/CocoCreekFisherman after all this time,


but yeah, a charger is always a nice thing if the battery is exchangable anyway.

 

[jontheramer2]

Well it would be better not to have to pull off the plastic lid to charge a battery.... And buying a whole device just to do that... I'm going out on a lim here but how hard could it be to just deliver the battery charging circuit? It would save a lot of money for sure. 

 

[Willhelm]

recenbtly i have been at http://www.ohsw.de/


on this meeting a user presented a self-made board to charge GTA04 (and other) batteries via USB. On his board he glued 3D printed frames for each battery type. As I saw his board I told Nikolaus that a bunch of people from the pandora board would love to buy such 'chargers' for the Pandora or the Pyra ....

 

[levi]

Interesting.  If you tried to do it using Pandora technology (not 100% about Pyra yet) then you'd need to build most of a Pandora to make it work.  At least you'd need the power filters and the CPU to control the charging.  And you'd need most of the software stack to get it to a point where it could fully control charging.


But a standalone board with the above using a newer CPU that's not end-of-life (and could even be cheaper, not needing to be a high-end part), combined with a simpler software stack to control charging on it might be one of the holy grails some people have been looking for - a software stack that can be brought up when the computer part is switched off to just control charging, so that the unit can be charged when 'switched off'.

 

[Grench]

Interesting.  If you tried to do it using Pandora technology (not 100% about Pyra yet) then you'd need to build most of a Pandora to make it work.  At least you'd need the power filters and the CPU to control the charging.  And you'd need most of the software stack to get it to a point where it could fully control charging.


But a standalone board with the above using a newer CPU that's not end-of-life (and could even be cheaper, not needing to be a high-end part), combined with a simpler software stack to control charging on it might be one of the holy grails some people have been looking for - a software stack that can be brought up when the computer part is switched off to just control charging, so that the unit can be charged when 'switched off'.

So - take a Pyra main board, don't populate any ports other than the USB charging port - or slots or jacks or anything else outside of what is needed for battery control.  Make the  nand just large enough to hold an OS (256MB?), use the same SoC card to avoid development costs, get plastic molds made to have a case for it...  Yeah, I could see that getting down to nearly $150 or so for a dedicated Pyra battery charger.


The implication of needing an external battery charger is that you need more than 1 battery to 'get through the day'.  If your day is going to consist of more than 10 straight hours of heavy Pyra use away from anywhere to plug it in OR you're living off-grid for more than 4 days at a shot - then you might need a 2nd battery.  I suspect, though, that it's a niche of a niche concern.  At that point you would likely be much better off buying one of these gigantic batteries and calling it good:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087HW5YM  That should hold a Pyra for what - nearly a week of 24 hour a day heavy usage or so?

 

[WizardStan]

Yeah, I could see that getting down to nearly $150 or so for a dedicated Pyra battery charger

Or you could get a high quality lipo cell charger with alligator clips for about $30.

 

[Pocak]

So - take a Pyra main board, don't populate any ports other than the USB charging port - or slots or jacks or anything else outside of what is needed for battery control.  Make the  nand just large enough to hold an OS (256MB?), use the same SoC card to avoid development costs, get plastic molds made to have a case for it...  Yeah, I could see that getting down to nearly $150 or so for a dedicated Pyra battery charger.

The Pyra's charger chip doesn't need CPU oversight, so i guess you wouldn't even need a SoC board. Also, you could just use a Pyra case (with or without the display part) instead of dropping several grand on new plastic molds. Still won't beat WizardStan's solution's price, though.

 

[Grench]

Though I still dispute the original premise that would result in any need for a stand alone charger - that one battery is not 'enough' and readily available external mobile charging solutions won't cut it.


If we're going to accept the premise that more than a few people would need more than the monster battery that is going into the Pyra, then an ideal stand-alone charger would be a 'cap' that would fit over the end of a Pyra battery with the logic from Wizardstan's lipo cell charger in it and a microUSB charging port on the side.


The 'spare' battery itself, though, would require some sort of storage case to prevent the possibility of accidental discharge, fire, etc...


IMHO any way you slice it, though, needing more than one battery to make it through the day is likely to be a pretty rare circumstance.

 

[jontheramer2]

That is assuming it will last a day. My days are 14-16 hours when i'm travelling. And the issue is not that you cannot do with one battery; the issue is that when I have back-to-back meetings I do not have time to leave the device in the hotel room. And yes it might be rare. I'm not sure. We are rare people to buy this device. I am a hardware guy anyway (shameless plug; https://scramcard.com) so maybe i'll just figure something ; you don't need that much intelligence to charge it. 

 

[WizardStan]

The Pyra should support hotswapping the battery: you can charge one battery for 5 hours then swap it for the other without needing to shut down.  Unless you make frequent back-to-back trips where you don't get at least 8 hours of downtime near a wall outlet, but then we're getting into niche of a niche of a niche.

 

[jontheramer2]

Hotswapping sounds good; I must have missed that feature But yeah that would fix it for me... I still might make something to change my openpandora battery

 

[Grench]

I travel too - and 16+ hour days are not uncommon.  However, when doing so, I'm either at a desk or in a conference room where there are outlets OR engaged in non-computer activities and not actively using my Pandora.  If you're doing business travel, you're unlikely to go 16 hours straight of heavy use without anyplace to plug in unless you're in Doctors Without Borders, but even then most places where you're likely to be doing clinic hours have generated power at least part of the day/night.


Keep in mind, we're not talking about 10 hours of light or standby use.  It should get 10+/- hours of solid use - overly heavy use with the CPU pegged (good luck on that one) could drop that down into the 4-6 hour range.  MP3 playback should be in the 12+ hour range.

 

[levi]

The Pyra should support hotswapping the battery: you can charge one battery for 5 hours then swap it for the other without needing to shut down.  Unless you make frequent back-to-back trips where you don't get at least 8 hours of downtime near a wall outlet, but then we're getting into niche of a niche of a niche.

 You'd need something plugged into the charge port to keep the system up for the time you had the battery out though, wouldn't you?  A small USB battery bank should suffice though, which you could then recharge off the new battery.


But I'm not sure, given you'd need to carry around the battery bank device, whether you'd be better off buying a bigger battery bank and using that to recharge the battery from empty in the Pyra over USB.  It'd be slightly less efficient, but might be less things to carry.

 

[mclien]

So do we need a poll?


question 1: who realy needs an ext. charger


question 2a: Design. desktop (aka standing dock kinda like Palm3 cradle) or portable (as in as small as possible)


question 2b: power connection: microusb port or fixed cable


I suggest to sort the questions out here and then set up the poll.

 

[levi]

I can't really answer question 1 without knowing what the power consumption of the Pyra can be.  I can take my Pandora off charge and use it for up to five hours of music, and still only need to plug it in a again at the end of the night (although if I use it for emulation or testing homebrew, I may need to charge it during the evening).  I don't know yet whether the bigger battery in the Pyra will be enough to last through the day, although given how the Pandora's power efficiency improved over its lifespan, it may be safe to assume it won't last the day to begin with.


Although then again, given it just needs a micro-usb charger, maybe I'll keep one at home and one at the office.  Or actually shut it down when I'm not using it.

 

[Grench]

I suspect your poll would need to start at a more basic level.  Who needs two 6000 mAh batteries between charge times/points?  The answer to that will be unknown until the Pyra is running AND someone has a chance to build out the power management systems.  Until then, nobody really knows for sure how long it will last during 'normal use'.  We can estimate - which is where the 10-12 hours guestimate comes from.

 

[rygD]

For basic use I am pretty sure the stock battery will get me through the day, even if I have to plug it in when I am at a desk.  Eventually when I am using it for mobile data/texts/calls it will depend on many fctors I can't predict, and I will need to spend about a month with it.  As long as battery life is in the average range of Android smartphones one battery should last me through the day with a couple top ups at the desk.  


When traveling I would probably prefer 2 batteries.  I won't be picking up 2 right away like I did with my Pandora because I ended up only needing the second battery once, and have had to resort to swapping them every few months so I don't feel it was a total waste.  I will use my Pyra much more if it lives up to my expectations, and it does use more power (but the battery has been improved to compensate).  The second battery for the Pyra when traveling would just be as insurance unless I end up in a lot of places with no electricity, so at this point it isn't needed (for me, in my situation).

 

[mclien]

Thinking about it a bit more: Lte#s assume I have a situation,  where I do need 2 batteries. I only need to have an ext. charger (read 2 chargers, 'cause one is inside the Pyra) if I run in the same situation within the charging time that is between 1 and 2 batteries. Do I stay longer at the powersource, I can simply charge both batteries in the Pyra. (OK, I could alsoload one in mine and one in my sons Pyra, but that won't work for everybody..).


So, summary: Might be true that an ext. charger has no use.... Perhaps a solar charger would....

 

[Inqui]

Take a PCB like this https://www.adafruit.com/products/390 and put a case on it.


You'll get a LiPo loader that works with USB, DC-USB-loader or Solarpanel.