Anyone here understand loudspeakers? - 'sound' advice needed!

[Binky]

For the last while I've been using a pair of loudspeakers built into cases made by a relative a few decades ago.

I recently decided to replace the cloth protecting them from dust, since it was getting old and scraggy. As a result I prised the front off (glued, yuk) and had a good look. I then hooked both of them up (one cased, one uncased) to a decent amp & source and had a good listen.

Note that I am generally quite tolerant of poor SQ, although I do notice the improvement offered by expensive less cheap equipment.

• The cased one sounds like an old sock.
• The uncased one sounds like chalk.*
• The cases are not well built.
• The drivers are 6"x9" no-name with dark-grey cardboard cones.

I listened to the same recording using some decent (coupl'a-hundred-pound) speakers and some reasonable** headphones (Sennheiser HD500) both of these were obviously better, with far more detail, bass, and control over higher notes.

• I need better speakers

Also:

• I feel like a woodworking project

There are several ways to go about fulfilling these needs:

• Rebuild the ones I've got, and hope that the new enclosures improve the SQ a bit -  that would be cheap
• Buy some cheapo (but new) drivers+crossovers and build cases for them (Like the kits stocked by conrad - http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/300291/SpeaKa-Kit-3-Dual-Woofer-Speaker-Construction-Kit)  - also quite cheap, possibly not much better sounding.
• Buy some actually high quality drivers & crossovers and carefully build an enclosure designed to get the best performance out of them - expensive, much better result if done right.

...and this is where I need your help; I have no idea which of the above to choose. I'm not keen on throwing a lot of money at the project, but then don't really want to keep the dreadful things I've got now.Based on then fact that I've been known to listen to youtube rips and £5 earbuds, what do you think I'll think of cheapo kit speakers? How precise a science is enclosure building?

Am I mad to even consider speaker-enclosure construction without being a professional joiner?

Are bad speakers more or less sensitive to bad casing than good ones?

I'm not averse to building some really cheap speakers now, and using the practice to do the job properly at some later date.

Answers? Thoughts? Opinions? Gibberings? Please!

Sanity restorer within - click spoiler in case of audiophilia:

Spoiler

A Song of Reproduction

May we ask, could you hear that more or less all right at the top there? All right for quantity? Nothing we can do about the quality. Not until Swann's voice breaks, anyway. People make an awful lot of fuss, anyway about the quality of the sound they listen to. Have you noticed; they spend all that time trying to get the exact effect of an orchestra actually playing in their sitting room. Personally, I can't think of anything I should hate more than an orchestra actually playing in my sitting room. They seem to like it, and it's about these people who we've written this next song. I mention this in case any of you think the title a little close to the bone; This is a Song of Reproduction.

I had a little gramophone;

I'd wind it round and round,

And with a sharpish needle

It made a cheerful sound.

And then they amplified it;

It was much louder then,

And you sharpened fibre needles

To make it soft again.

Today for reproduction

I'm as eager as can be;

Count me among the faithful fans

Of High Fidelity.

High Fidelity! Hi Fi's the thing for me

With an L.P. disc and an F.M. set

And a comer reflex cabinet,

High Frequency range

Complete with Auto-change!

All the highest notes, neither sharp nor flat:

The ear can't hear as high as that,

Still I ought to please any passing bat

With my High Fidelity.

Who made this circuit up for you anyway? Bought it in a shop? Oooh! what a horrible, shoddy job they fobbed you off with. I'm surprised they let you have it in here! The a-cow-stics are all wrong. If you raise the ceiling four feet, put the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard. I see you've got your negative feedback coupled in with your push-pull input-output; take that across through your redded pickup to your tweeter, and if you're modding more than eight you're going to get wow on your top - try to bring that down through your pre-amp rumble filter to your woofer. And what'll you get? Flutter on your bottom!

High Fidelity! F.F.R.R. for me!

I've an opera here that you shan't escape

On miles and miles of recording tape;

High decibel gain

Is easy to obtain;

With the tone control at a single touch

Bel Canto sounds like Double Dutch.

Still I never did care for music much

It's the High Fidelity!

MF: This is a good moment to explain that we don't normally have these things standing around here, but tonight they are recording this, stereophonically in fact, for posterity. So, wherever you're sitting now, it'll be where you'll be on the record. Sit up nice and straight, if any of you feel like rolling in the aisles or being carried out helpless with mirth, this is a jolly good night to do it. Do you want to say hello to posterity?

DS: Hello!

MF: Hello, Posterity. If we move around a bit, they'll use it for demonstration purposes.

* That's muffled and ill-defined/over-emphasised highs to those of you with no imagination :rolleyes:

** By my definition anyway - I'm sure there are plenty of audiophiles rearing to tell by how low my standards are. Please don't.

 

[Ian J]

Take some of your music to a hifi dealer & audition speakers within your budget.


Nothing compares to actually hearing your audio.


Sent from my GT-I9300

 

[Binky]

That doesn't take into account that:

• £50 of kit driver/crossover ≠ £50 of speaker
• Speaker enclosures made by someone with more spare time than experience ≠ enclosures made commercially for cheap speakers

 

[Asiyura]

If you want a complete DIY set of speakers, try that website
http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/Volume/

Making your speakers yourself allow you to cherry pick the speakers that works the best for what you want to listen to.
That allows to make cases that will be better integrated to your interior too.

 

[Ian J]

Are you in the UK?  http://www.richersounds.com/products/hi-fi-separates/speakers/bookshelf-speakers

 

[Binky]

@ ian J

I feel like a woodworking project

Also, if it helps, I have a pair of mission SCM51s (now worth £50 second-hand) which seem good enough to me.

Still doesn't really help with the quality of kit speakers though.

 

[Binky]

Another thing I've just noticed is that conrad-uk want £170 for 0.7m2 (calculated from photos, woofer diameter and recommended enclosure volume) of cnc-cut flatpack MDF. (designed to hold £66 of speaker).

Large sheets of MDF retail for around £7 per square meter.

Which of the following is true:

• Cutting circles in MDF is extremely expensive
• Conrad overcharge for everything
  
• They overcharge on the enclosures only
• They undercharge on the drivers & crossovers to lead people to buy the (overpriced) enclosure too

Their individual driver prices seem to be inline with the kits containing them

Edit: also, their individual driver prices seem to be inline with other retailers.

--

This leaves another question.

This kit http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/300291/SpeaKa-Kit-3-Dual-Woofer-Speaker-Construction-Kit contains two woofers. Why?

Does it compensate for feeble driver construction? Look pretty? Overemphasise bass for people who's music tastes run to THUMPA THUMPA BOOM CRASH? You can get acceptable complete speaker pairs for less than £130, so I assume such sets aren't utterly dreadful.

 

[levi]

Dunno, I've seen bass drivers bigger than that in old (admittedly un-ported designs) that predate drum&bass. Getting drivers smaller than that to give you the same bass response would require careful case design, so having two the same might be useful. Plus I've also seen plenty of professional speakers more expensive than the ones I own with doubled-up bass drivers - though the fact I've always gone for the cheaper versions with only one might tell you something.

I couldn't recommend that Conrad package though. They don't give you any indication of the sensitivity of the speakers or how configurable their three-way crossover is.

 

[Binky]

This document helps: http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/300000-324999/300291-an-01-ml-SPEAKA_BAUSATZ_3_de_en_fr_nl.pdf

(assuming that L1 and L2 are inductors)

 

[Asiyura]

http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Tutorial/Crossover/

?

 

[Binky]

?

 

[mcobit]

If you want to build something yourself but don't have the right knowledge, I can suggest visaton kits. There are a lot of them to choose from.


But if you want to learn and build some quality speakers, I'd suggest that you buy a good book about theory of sound and speakers first. Then study stuff like crossovers and horns.


Also get used to do a lot of calculations and if that doesn't help, be sure to buy a lot of wood and have a lot of time

 

[comradekingu]

Just some dali 108 or other classics will do you better if you pick them up used, they cost next to nothing.

Buy yourself some decent full-tones and do the sq with software.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Watson/watson.htm

65 quid for a set of 2ways with filter isnt good quality for money when you consider time spent versus the sound return.

 

[Binky]

I've bought two "speaka kit 3"s, since they're easily available without expensive cross-Atlantic shipping, and are relatively cheap. Comparing conrad's speaker prices with others suggests they're reasonably priced too.

They also come with plans for a suitable enclosure

I am now intending to:

• Buy two 8'x4' sheets of 3/4" ply
• Get them cut into the right-sized rectangles by the timber suppliers (who have a big saw)
• Read up on how to fix them together (batons? glue? screws? cross-bracing?)
• Cut circular holes in them
• construct, finish, test

While I would like to learn more (and get more out of it), I don't currently trust myself with 'proper' parts, and don't have the time to truly understand speaker case design.