69 year old violently dragged from overbooked United flight


Maybe we should just get rid of all forms of media and journalism because you don't care?

Or you could just choose to ignore this altogether and we'd all have a better time.
 
thatgui said:
ok, something changed but to what effect ? Same situation, but now the passenger is dragged away in the airport building instead of the airplane ?
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That makes no sense. Why would anyone need to be dragged from the terminal? If they haven't boarded the plane yet they can just stop them from boarding at the gate.

-Neelix
 
thatgui said:
Don't get this the wrong way, but this sounds like a verse from the "communist handbook". But to get away from my - surely - nonsensical ascertainment, is there a "system" that is actually able to keep a large group of human beeings behaving inside the boundaries/rulesets this system employs without the threat of violence (beeing it physical, economical or moral) ?
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I certainly have some socialist sympathies, so if it sounded that way, it's accurate. If you're referring to the specific book, I think it's titled the Communist Manifesto.

I think we can acknowledge violence is sometimes unfortunately unavoidable while still agreeing that it is bad and should be minimized where possible. As far as moral violence goes, are you describing coercive social norms? Because these sorts of moral rules - which really boil down to "don't be a dick" are one of the best ways to nonviolently resolve resource conflicts without resorting to the violence of property rights. The argument isn't "socialism will mean no violence ever" - that would be naive - but "socialism means less violence because the economic system is not based almost entirely around property" and "socialists should focus on human rights and dignity above property rights in hybrid and capitalist economies".

As for systems influencing group behavior: there are degrees of coercion, with physical violence being one extreme form. There's also persuasion, another effective way of managing large groups of people. Whether using moral codes, economic incentives, or persuasive reasoning, there is still the problem of the rare individual who behaves anti-socially, and there are various responses available to that. Broadly speaking, society can absorb the cost as long as such behavior is contained.
 
kuru said:
Maybe we should just get rid of all forms of media and journalism because you don't care?
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What are your even talking about ? This is as far from journalism as it can get: This is just a modern version of getting the pitchfork out. No one cares that this case is actually two seperate cases, or that surely a big part of the people that are making a fuzz right now are probably partly responsible for such things to happen: either because they gave their ballot to a party that activly supports and creates an economic environment for such things to happen or even perpetuating the "I take the cheapest offer, and I don't care how these cheap prices are possible" spiral when the book a flight next time.
And again I never said that its something "no one should ever talk about at all", I asked they question, why does this need to be dragged out here, when its already discuessed to death in so many places. Still would like to get an answer.

Neelix said:
That makes no sense. Why would anyone need to be dragged from the terminal? If they haven't boarded the plane yet they can just stop them from boarding at the gate.
-Neelix
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Maybe I misunderstood the content of the article vcoleiro1 linked to, but other then there is a deadline now for airline employees to "reserve" a seat, it is the same as before - only the "venue" will change. So you assume that someone that actively (physically) refused to leave a plane - even in the presence of local police authority - will just shrug it off and leave, if he is told that he won't be allowed to board the plane although he has a valid ticket ?

veloknight said:
I certainly have some socialist sympathies, so if it sounded that way, it's accurate. If you're referring to the specific book, I think it's titled the Communist Manifesto.

I think we can acknowledge violence is sometimes unfortunately unavoidable while still agreeing that it is bad and should be minimized where possible.
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Yes we do (and politically, I guess we are "headed" in the same direction") but your response appeared (to me) to be more a "reflex" then anything else, thats why I reffered to the non existent "handbook", something you pull out to have a quick solution/response to a happenstance.
As to your question I missed answering: Yes people should know with what or whom they are dealing with, but what lasting effect the "internet outrage of the week" will have ? From my point of view there is no lasting effect, as long as the only reaction to it is likes, retweets and post like the starting post of this thread. Without people actually doing something about it - and even its one they can easily do without getting away from their displays: by (not) using the sword that eveyone wields in this economic system: their wallet - the whole thing is meaningleass, in my opinion,
 
thatgui said:
Maybe I misunderstood the content of the article vcoleiro1 linked to, but other then there is a deadline now for airline employees to "reserve" a seat, it is the same as before - only the "venue" will change. So you assume that someone that actively (physically) refused to leave a plane - even in the presence of local police authority - will just shrug it off and leave, if he is told that he won't be allowed to board the plane although he has a valid ticket ?
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I'm not saying they wouldn't make a scene, but as long as they're still in the terminal, there's no need to drag them anywhere. The plane can continue preparing for departure, and once it gets pushed back from the gate, continuing to make a fuss about it would become moot, and once the customer calms down a bit, the staff would be able to work with the customer to get them their refund and/or rebook them on another flight.

I rather suspect that there's also a fair psychological difference between being told you've bumped from the flight as per the conditions of ones ticket before boarding, and actually being allowed to board only to be told to get off the plane once you've boarded and taken your seat...

-Neelix
 
thatgui said:
This is as far from journalism as it can get: This is just a modern version of getting the pitchfork out.
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That's intentional hyperbole. Not talking about things does not instill change. When the alternative is that nobody on that plane talked about what happened, I'll take rage culture any day.
And if pricking industry with a pitchfork works to some extent, I'll take that, too. I don't know about the US, but I've lost any trust in democracy.

thatgui said:
I asked they question, why does this need to be dragged out here, when its already discuessed to death in so many places. Still would like to get an answer.
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I don't know about others, but this is the only forum I visit. Too off-topic? My suggestion to just ignore still stands.
 
Neelix said:
I'm not saying they wouldn't make a scene, but as long as they're still in the terminal, there's no need to drag them anywhere. The plane can continue preparing for departure, and ...
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Good point > so to look at it in a different light, I was wrong, "Internet rage" was indeed successfull: now people still have to live with the same policies, but its a lot less likely they come in a situation that escalates enough to start an "internet rage":p

kuru said:
That's intentional hyperbole. Not talking about things does not instill change. When the alternative is that nobody on that plane talked about what happened, I'll take rage culture any day.
And if pricking industry with a pitchfork works to some extent, I'll take that, too. I don't know about the US, but I've lost any trust in democracy.

I don't know about others, but this is the only forum I visit. Too off-topic? My suggestion to just ignore still stands.
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Again, I have no clue where you want to go with this. I never implied that the whole incident should be hushed up - or if I did so, please point out to me where, so I (hopefully) won't make that mistake twice.
 
thatgui said:
Edit: The question remains, why does this need a thread on this board ?
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Well, we have a weird corner here at these forums. The thing is, we have lots of introverts/different-than-the-norm in these forums, and this spot has become a second home to many. (I use this FF plug-in called Morning Coffee to have info served on different days... but this forum I hit more than once a week...). Some things are banned... like politics. some things are welcomed... like buying geeky stuff and telling about it (too bad just superficially, "what have you been buying recently"). There are the best word puns on the internet in a joke thread, there are silly pictures of numbers in another, and each 2 months there is a thread started by E.D. that within, say, 4 hours is already 8 pages long... and half of it is about keyboards...
But... this ecosystem is what it is, and I would not change it into something more sterile/efficient.
 
thatgui said:
Again, I have no clue where you want to go with this. I never implied that the whole incident should be hushed up - or if I did so, please point out to me where, so I (hopefully) won't make that mistake twice.
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Not in so many words, but that's exactly how this comes across:
thatgui said:
Why exactly does this need to be dragged out in every corner of the internet ?
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- Whether you intended it that way or otherwise. By questioning why this was brought up you imply that it should not have been brought up at all.

thatgui said:
Edit: The question remains, why does this need a thread on this board ?
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By the same token why do we need to discuss anything in this section of this board at all? Do we really need an off-topic section?
I would ague that the question is pointless. We do have an off-topic section, it's not going anywhere and I think the community would be diminished without it.

-Neelix
 
The thing is if they were offering $800 for people to give up their seats why didn't they just buy tickets from another airline and put their employees on the flight. In fact that should be the standard thing to do in this case, why offer your customers more money than what it costs to put your employees on another companies planes?
 
I guess they thought they needed their employees at the other end of the country that night. I don't know what other countries were running that route that night, and it may be that any other flight would have been too late for them not to have to reschedule something.

And of course, they weren't offering $800 in cash - they were only offering $800 in United vouchers, which, if you've been bumped already, you may not be too keen to book another flight with them even at $800 down anytime soon.
 
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