3d Capabilities

[pea]

I wonder what happened to [developer of the dancing baby 3D thingy] that he was showing around a few months back. That looked like it was going places.

 

[Inopia]

<shameless self promotion>
5000+ texturemapped polygons on gp32
</shameless self promotion>

Direct link may not work, go through pdroms to download it: http://www.pdroms.de/file_details.php?fn=2100

 

[Squidge]

Looking the register list and how games like Metroid Prime work, it seems that the DS has both a geometry engine, and a math's coprocessor.

So, sure, the DS doesn't seem to have 3D hardware as such, but it goes quite some way towards it. I would be very suprised if the GP32 could match it, simply due to how much processing time would be taken to just simulate (note: I'm *not* talking emulation here) the math's co-pro, never mind the geometry engine.

For anyone interested, a public technical reference is available at http://www.auia.net/ds/ - but note that much of the information is incomplete, and there will be inaccuracies and errors.

(Of course, both the maths and geometry engine could be being done in the processor in software, but if that's the case, why not just call a routine in the SDK, instead of using loads of hardware registers?)

I'm not a Nintendo fanboy in the slightest. I hate them in fact. But I was just stating the facts (people are confused). I figure we *could* have DS or better 3D but only if we kidnapped developers from Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft.

Also, the DS has no 3d hardware (I think) it is done in software on one or the other of the two chips through a specialized SDK. The most specialized hardware backing it could possibly have in the graphics and sound department, based on its specs, is the GBA graphics and sound chips, and there is a possibility that the bios emulates these so they may not even have those.

Then again some details are kept secret and this may just be all speculation and wrong.

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[Propeller]

Actually the DS has a 66mhz ARM9 and a 33mhz ARM7...

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And more than likely they are not combinable. One is meant for DS games, the other is for the GBA.

Cheers!

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The arm7 processor in GBA is 16.8 MHz.
The arm7 processor in NDS is 33.0 MHz.

Do you think Nintendo would fit a faster processor "just" for GBA games?

Propeller

 

[Inopia]

Hmm, DS has two procs, and they can execute code concurrently. So you can combine them. In fact, I think that's the whole idea

 

[Goity]

Hmm, DS has two procs, and they can execute code concurrently. So you can combine them. In fact, I think that's the whole idea

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actually, the 33mhz one is used for the 2d screen, and the 66mhz used for the 3d screen being used in a game. they don't work together.

 

[Squidge]

I don't know if games use them together, but I do know that since they seem to share memory, that they can be used together (I'm not exactly sure how they share the memory, as we all know that having two masters trying to control a single address bus is a bad thing, but hey, it seems to work...). For example, current DS hacks work by using a flash cart in the GBA slot on the DS, and so any code there is run by the ARM7 at the usual GBA address in memory. The ARM7 can then move code around in memory and get the ARM9 to run it. I'm not exactly sure HOW it gets the ARM9 to run it however, it could be toggling a reset line for all I know, but that would still mean that the ARM7 has some access to the ARM9's addressing space.

Hmmm, need much more research, but so little time

If someone would like to explain how the ARM7 -> ARM9 switch works on current hacks, then feel free...

 

[Jaw]

prolly a silly question, but if the DS is an ARM9 cpu, that's the same as the gp32 right? does that meen that with a bit of messing a fairly accurate emulator could be made using the hardware rarther than software emulation?

 

[finty]

actually, the 33mhz one is used for the 2d screen, and the 66mhz used for the 3d screen being used in a game. they don't work together.

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Actually that is a retarded sentence.

 

[DanGP]

prolly a silly question, but if the DS is an ARM9 cpu, that's the same as the gp32 right? does that meen that with a bit of messing a fairly accurate emulator could be made using the hardware rarther than software emulation?

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it won't be possible because the DS has 3D hardware which the gp32_console doesn't have.

 

[Talyz]

prolly a silly question, but if the DS is an ARM9 cpu, that's the same as the gp32 right? does that meen that with a bit of messing a fairly accurate emulator could be made using the hardware rarther than software emulation?

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it won't be possible because the DS has 3D hardware which the gp32_console doesn't have.

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It doesn't...

 

[DanGP]

prolly a silly question, but if the DS is an ARM9 cpu, that's the same as the gp32 right? does that meen that with a bit of messing a fairly accurate emulator could be made using the hardware rarther than software emulation?

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it won't be possible because the DS has 3D hardware which the gp32_console doesn't have.

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It doesn't...

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sorry I was looking at an old webpage for the specs :rolleyes:

 

[Fishbong]

prolly a silly question, but if the DS is an ARM9 cpu, that's the same as the gp32 right? does that meen that with a bit of messing a fairly accurate emulator could be made using the hardware rarther than software emulation?

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:wacko: :wacko: AAAARGH, the GP32 has not enough RAM :wacko: :wacko:

Besides, the ARM7 in the GBA and the ARM9 are also similar. The GBA emulator GP Advance uses this similarity to emulate GBA, and it still doesn´t work great...

 

[Jaw]

what about with the 64 meg ram mod then? if ram is the issue that is?

 

[trooper]

what about with the 64 meg ram mod then? if ram is the issue that is?

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It`s not a standard or widely used, So gets little or no support.

Maybe one day. :rolleyes:

Trooper

 

[Fishbong]

Oh yes, just wait til everybody has 64 MB of RAM, then we´ll get GBA, DS and PSP emulation :lol: RAM is only one of many many things that makes this impossible, but the main issue is that the gp32_console is just not powerful enough (sorry to say that, but...)
I´d like better SNES emulation, whats the point in emulating a portable system on a portable system anyway? I can´t carry my SMS II around, so i use fSMS on the GP32, but i can carry my GBA, so i don´t need a GBA emu...

 

[DanGP]

The point in emulating portable systems on a portable system is to save space in your pocket by only having one console that can play all of the games.

 

[Fishbong]

OK, OK, that´s right and might apply to GBC emulation, but we´re at a point where we are discussing about very limited and constricted emulation. Some say emulation makes only sense if you can enjoy it, some say its just cool to see some game running on the GP32, no matter how slow or unplayable it may be (e.g. PSX emus etc.).
But since you mentioned the practical advances of being able to emulate multiple handhelds on one, i guess you are certainly talking about emulation that is actually enjoyable. Enjoyable emulation of systems like the GBA or higher is not possible on the GP32, so it still might be better to carry more systems around, if you can´t decide on which one to take.

 

[DanGP]

OK, OK, that´s right and might apply to GBC emulation, but we´re at a point where we are discussing about very limited and constricted emulation. Some say emulation makes only sense if you can enjoy it, some say its just cool to see some game running on the GP32, no matter how slow or unplayable it may be (e.g. PSX emus etc.).
But since you mentioned the practical advances of being able to emulate multiple handhelds on one, i guess you are certainly talking about emulation that is actually enjoyable. Enjoyable emulation of systems like the GBA or higher is not possible on the GP32, so it still might be better to carry more systems around, if you can´t decide on which one to take.

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Anyway emulation is pritty useless if its increadbly slow or unplayable no matter how cool it is. So carrying around extra consoles to play the games on is better than playing them at an unplayable speed on the gp32_console .

 

[aapje89]

actually, the 33mhz one is used for the 2d screen, and the 66mhz used for the 3d screen being used in a game. they don't work together.

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Actually that is a retarded sentence.

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LOL :lol: