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He's saying that meta s for example gets you a +/- symbol nothing more.

Never used GBP instead of £ not just as £ is quicker ± µ would save me hitting compose sequences when making documentation ¥ why exclude the Japanese market But is ß used in modern German? Its fine looking at it I immediately realised how it worked without confusion Why would you assume...

still too confusing...

<> appear in writing a great deal when its java or C or a wide range of other languages you are writing in. "%^&*(){}@>< wouldn't these symbols be better on shift ? (In the same way as a traditional keyboard)

Observation: quite a lot of programming symbols {<[ etc on meta - maybe more on shift would be better?

Sheeze this is like watching a clowder of cats trying to herd itself...

Does anyone strongly disagree with this (and what is your reasoning) ? Is this a single point of consensus we can all work into our pet layouts? [Edit] that and qwerty (maybe US? Or is that reaching too far?!)

Seems a waste having duplicate shifts where those keys are so scarce, I'd say dispite not being a shoulder keyboard fan that a better compromise would be a left shift on the keyboard and right on a shoulder (ideally a right one!)

Why have a shift on the RIGHT of the keyboard called left shift??? Why duplicate the same key? If you want two shifts on the keyboard why not the two different shifts? If you want shifts on the shoulder buttons than thats the place for duplicates(of the main board)

True story I once worked on phone support for a short while and you could have knocked me over with a feather when I realised I was waiting for the guy to find the any key... Was so tempted to ask him if he still had the box....

can we just call them M1 (modifier one) AKA shift - for caps and common symbols (including programming / shell?) , M2 (diacritics and less common symbols) and M3 (other stuff) Then when we have figured out what belongs in what category *then* we can argue what M2/M3 should be called FN/AltGr/Banana

Compromise is a sign of maturity not weakness... For the keymat design to be a usable as possible within the (quite limiting) physical limitations we will all have to make compromises ...

...don't even go there... Someone will agree and make their darling pet layout and then its 20+ posts later...

...not everybody needs say brackets.  Heresy! The very idea! ;)   ...  if brackets have to take a bit of a back seat for numbers then fair enough - but they need to be somewhere on there!

Thats a reasonably well thought out analysis - I don't know how it could be managed exactly (to be honest) but I'd like something like this but with number keys as first class citizens... I wonder if it would be worth analyzing German, French etc for frequency of diacritics - it would need a...

1.5mm X 3.5mm is damn small ! at least with just 2 symbols you can "overlap" the virtual square of a character without the actual symbols touching as there is usually a bit of spare space in the corners... (probably didn't explain that too well?)

jeeze *that* small and people want 4 symbols per key....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9995is a standard for keyboards with 20+ more keys available than we have ... There is no standard I know of for keyboards with just 41 or so keys There is only so far you can go trying to shoehorn the function of 60 odd keys into the space of around 40 -...

Any more than two colours on the keymat could make it quite expensive... Also limiting the number of symbols printed on a key means its likely to look less cluttered What are these standards people keep making oblique references to... I'd love to read these standards....

Its a shame so many proposals have demoted number keys to second class citizens they are a cromulent place for the first 10 function keys...