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zboy9 posted on Oct 8 2003 at 12:23 PM said:
btw, it's not American politics that are messed up! We have one of the best system of politics in the world.
yeah.... thats why Al Gore got more votes in the 2000 election, but George Bush is president, and has already waged two wars..... sounds brilliant to me!
Btw- that was sarcasm if you couldnt tell.......
 
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schwarzeneger is the main man, itd be funny if he ran for president and won. i would probably laugh and then move to america because schwarzeneger is the shit.

thewave.gif
 
declaration posted on Oct 8 2003 at 03:23 PM said:
zboy9 posted on Oct 8 2003 at 12:23 PM said:
btw, it's not American politics that are messed up! We have one of the best system of politics in the world.
yeah.... thats why Al Gore got more votes in the 2000 election, but George Bush is president, and has already waged two wars..... sounds brilliant to me!
Btw- that was sarcasm if you couldnt tell.......
Look back through history, the 2000 election outcome was not without precedence.

1824 John Q. Adams won the presidency without winning the popular vote OR the electoral. Why? There were three strong candidates that year and no one had a majority of either the electoral or popular.

1876 Rutherford B Hayes won vs. Tilden. Tilden won the popular vote by over 250,000. Hayes won the electoral after a LOT of maneuvering by the parties.

1888 Cleveland lost to Harrison by electoral vote while winning the popular vote by over 100,000

1960 Kennedy vs. Nixon. The difference in popular vote was less than 125,000 votes, there was a high possibility that the vote in Illinois and a few other states was highly inaccurate, and possibly crooked, paid for with Kennedy's father's money. Nixon refused to lodge a protest, complaint etc...

1976 Carter vs. Ford. The race was so close in Ohio and Hawaii that a change of 9,000 votes would have given Ford the win over Carter in the electoral.

The only thing unique about the 2000 election is that the Gore campaign were such sore loosers over the whole thing. Both the 1976 and 1960 elections might have gone differently if the opponents had protested the outcome like Gore did.
 
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All i was saying is that it proves that the US political system is not very good............ all those instances you just quoted back up my point.... I dont think they were a great advert for democracy either. Gore definitely should have contested the result.

btw- you sure do know your American history!! :)
 
btw, it's not American politics that are messed up! We have one of the best system of politics in the world.

HA! Yes, of course you do.

1) Doesn't it bother you sometimes that if the party you voted for doesn't win your state, then your vote doesn't count? (proportional representation is long overdue in the US)

2) Or that votes in another state may count more than yours?

3) Or that the two parties, Republicans and Democrats, have few differences between them if you look behind the gloss, and if you vote for anybody else then your vote will almost certainly not count?

4) Or that the president is elected by party members, and not by the public?

5) Or that your government has to plan ahead and look after the welfare of the country for a whopping 4 years, and not a day further, because "the next government can fix the mess that we left for them"?

6) Or that re-election hype starts a year in advance, and that huge amounts of your tax money are spent on it?

And don't tell me that "it may not be perfect, but it's one the best we have"; I can easily think of ways to change it for the better, and that's because some other countries actually DO have fairer elections than the US (Russia, for instance).

It is the PEOPLE that are messed up. Don't blame Arnold for the void in your life.

That's somewhat true. I wouldn't say that "the people are messed up", but the majority of them certainly do believe everything that their government tells them.
The government knows this, which is why you have people like Donald Rumsfeld to mislead the public.

As all cynical politicians know, it is the IMAGE of democracy which is important, not its actual realization. That's why you have news stations like CNN (which I hear is considered a "lefty" channel in the US) constantly polling the public on things like "Do you believe that Iraq has WMD?".

As if it matters what those people, who DO NOT have enough information on the matter to even make a qualified decision, think.
I hate those "discussion shows" just as much, full of brainwashed party followers:
"Do you think that we were justified in invading Iraq?"
"Yes, because now Iraqies have more freedom, and we deposed that dictator Saddam Hussein."

The once-beautiful city of Baghdad is in ruins, many Iraqis still don't have access to clean water, anarchy reigns, as does terrorism in a country where there was none, but that's okay because they have more freedom now.

<_<

As for Ahnold, a good actor doesn't necessarily make a good governor. But we'll see what happens. I live Ontario, Canada, anyway (where thankfully the Liberals won; hopefully transportation will be government-funded now, and we'll stop the liquidation of $4.5 billion worth of government property to pay the bills :rolleyes: ), so why should I care?
 
As Cpt_Kirks states about the demolition man they mention that a bill was passed cause of his popularity.

Im not 100% sure but im sure he could become prez if the bill was sworn in they didnt just pull it out of thin air ;)

:ph34r:
 
Well, ESN, it seems like you support the Democrats. Well, did you ever think about the good things that are happening in Iraq? Thousands of schools are opening, and so many other things. I heard on, believe it or not, CNN, a reporter said she saw two girls SHOPPING ( sounds a little like the word freedom ) and they asked the reporter: "Do you listen to Metallica?"
I mean little things like that. The people are enjoying many more freedoms than we will ever see, because news agencies are so stuck on reporting the bad, not the good.
And ok, I admit that things do seem somewhat out of control in Iraq, with about one US soldier dying everyday, but think about it in this perspective: More people die in car accidents in one minute. Probably a lot more. Think of how many people die of getting murdered, in the US. Now, I am not in any way trying to say that US soldiers dying is ok, but I am telling you to put it in another perspective. GO ARNIE!
 
zboy9, please understand, it ain't shit for live to end. Please don't write such things with your CNN-washed mind, telling irakis now can listen to metallica. The american-administration just got no right to tell arabian people what they got to do, starting a war that isn't legitim. Victims of road traffic die because of accidents, and not because someone dropped a bomb on them. You hopefully understand the difference. If your proof of freedom is shopping, you better get a well-paid job and work all night to get your freedom. But thats all a different subject. I don't like the fact that Arnold wins not because its Arnold and he's got a weak political education, its because he choosed to be a republican. Maybe he can save Mr. Bushs' presidency, many thanks for that.
 
no, you please understand, my mind is not CNN-washed, I watch FOX news much more. And I am not saying that dropping a bomb on someone and dying in an accident are the same. I am just saying that everyone thinks that one soldier dying is such a big deal, when hundreds of people are murdered everyday. And about shopping, I am just addressing one of the many new freedoms that the Iraqis have. They can go to school, and do things they want, and listen to things they want. They don't have to hear "Praise Saddam" everyday and recite that. Get it?
 
zboy9 posted on Oct 9 2003 at 10:14 AM said:
no, you please understand, my mind is not CNN-washed, I watch FOX news much more.
much much worst. Evil propaganda. American foreign policy kills thousands of people every year......... What about all the Iraqis that died in the war. I'm sure they're all listening to Metallica now.... America made Saddam the man he is, they gave him his power, they through this (and sanctions) caused all the suffering that the iraqis had and now you think its great that Americ has liberated these people.
You seem so concerned with US soldiers dying, but dont mention the Iraqis that have died. How can you sit there and watch Fox news and believe what they are telling you. It is one of the most evil things in the world and would obviously be pro-war. The Iraqis cannot get what they want or do the things they want. They are an occupied country, where the Americans cant control the population, hospitals have been looted and most people are frightened of leaving home.
Iraqi children asking about Metallica seems a sad thing to me. it just represent the way in which the USA constantly imposes its culture on the rest of the world, eroding away the culture of far greater people.
I am not a democrat supporter or a republican. I am no way evil enough for any of those. stop thinking your country is so great and get a wider view of the world than just Fox News. Watching it makes me laugh, it genuinely seems like "tongue-in-cheek" ironic comedy to me.......
 
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zboy9 posted on Oct 9 2003 at 11:14 AM said:
no, you please understand, my mind is not CNN-washed, I watch FOX news much more. And I am not saying that dropping a bomb on someone and dying in an accident are the same. I am just saying that everyone thinks that one soldier dying is such a big deal, when hundreds of people are murdered everyday. And about shopping, I am just addressing one of the many new freedoms that the Iraqis have. They can go to school, and do things they want, and listen to things they want. They don't have to hear "Praise Saddam" everyday and recite that. Get it?
Got it. Everything I wrote was just because I didn't understood the truthes you declared. But I'm trying ...
 
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uummm.... DECLARATION, just how much do you know about FOX news? I know that at least one of their shows, Hannity and Colmes (I think is the name) has a democrat and a republican host. They don't always agree, as a matter of fact they fight a lot. Saying FOX news is pro war is just your opinion, as this is just my opinion. However, I just want you to think about this if you don't support the war in Iraq: Under Saddam children were put in torture chambers and people were murdered on the spot for saying anything against Saddam or good about America. Now, even if there were no weapons of mass destruction, don't you think it is good that children and people have some freedom now, and that no more children will be put in torture prisons, and they are free to believe what they want? Again, this is only if you don't support the war. Now what this has to do with Arnold, I don't know. ;)
I'm sure they're all listening to Metallica now
Oh, and about Metallica, even though that may show American diffusion in their society, at least they have a choice now. Who cares if they listen to American music? They have their own choice now.
 
Oh yeah, and zboy9, I remember watching MTV right before we attacked Iraq and they were interviewing these three young Iraqi brothers. They talked about the kind of music they listened to and they said they liked Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears and stuff. But they also said that we deserved the 9/11 attacks on us. <_<
 
zboy9- you dont get my point:- america made saddam, they put him they put him there. America therefore caused the torture etc. also america supports many dictators and evil rulers around the world who persecute their people etc, but what do america do? nothing thats what. How you can say that iraqi children have freedom is beyond me.... they live in an occupied country for gods sake. How you can also believe anything you see on Fox news is ridiculous. We do get Fox news in europe and its just a propaganda mouthpiece.
Just answer me one single question- Why does the US so fervently support evil people all around the world while it condemns others....... oil, power and racism is the answer.
 
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