Open Software Solution For Pam (phone As Modem)

[SNESFAN]

I vaguely remember this being asked a while ago but the end responce was "if someone writes drivers for it" and I don't wanna dig up a dead post and it didn't really answer the question I had.

this is what I use now SmartView for sprint PCS here in america
http://www.nextel.com/en/software_download...erry_8330.shtml

I understand this is for windows and no port possible yadda yadda, but here's what it does,

-allows tethering for your laptop to use the your cell to access the internet (wwan) via your data plan
-gps location output via supported gps enabled phone
-make and recieve voice calls via cell phone on computer speaker/mic

all this can be done via usb connection or bluetooth, pretty versitile and free (not open) software

my question is there anything even remotely close to this out there at the moment that this can be eventually used or ported on the panda?

I'm sure you can use your imagineation and see the possible applications for this.

 

[danielliu88888]

I vaguely remember this being asked a while ago but the end responce was "if someone writes drivers for it" and I don't wanna dig up a dead post and it didn't really answer the question I had.

this is what I use now SmartView for sprint PCS here in america
http://www.nextel.com/en/software_download...erry_8330.shtml

I understand this is for windows and no port possible yadda yadda, but here's what it does,

-allows teathering for your laptop to use the your cell to access the internet (wwan) via your data plan
-gps location output via supported gps enabled phone
-make and recieve voice calls via cell phone on computer speaker/mic

all this can be done via usb connection or bluetooth, pretty versitile and free (not open) software

my question is there anything even remotely close to this out there at the moment that this can be eventually used or ported on the panda?

I'm sure you can use your imagineation and see the possible applications for this.

what's the advantage of any of this except for the tethering?

 

[SNESFAN]

what's the advantage of any of this except for the tethering?

well besides the tethering which is a HUGE plus imo...
the gps, for tomtom, google maps, etc..
the ability to make/receive phone calls via your computer when it's still in usb/data mode or say when you have your headphones on, i think i noted at the features??

I'm not quite sure where the hiccup is at?

 

[danielliu88888]

what's the advantage of any of this except for the tethering?

well besides the tethering which is a HUGE plus imo...
the gps, for tomtom, google maps, etc..
the ability to make/receive phone calls via your computer when it's still in usb/data mode or say when you have your headphones on, i think i noted at the features??

I'm not quite sure where the hiccup is at?

if you can tether... you can already use google maps and such. why would you need to use your computer to make phone calls when you have a phone?

 

[SNESFAN]

if you can tether... you can already use google maps and such. why would you need to use your computer to make phone calls when you have a phone?

google maps is good for when you're tethered, but tom tom apps or whatever though, and i'm sure there's instances where you can't get on on the network due to crappy signal or you just wanna use the gps module on the phone and not eat up your battery as much... again not a all the time thing, but nice to have it if I can

I personally like the ability in the middle of a game just click on a button on my screen answer a call, if you ever used vent or team speak with a headset and you're in the middle of doing something in a online game, how frustrating a phone call can be.

take off headset
pick up phone
see who's calling
hit answer
clench phone between ear and shoulder
hands back on controller

these are nice features in my opinion, even if it's one of those luxury features

and hell who knows someday you might be able to hack one of them 3g cards with the sim chips into a "cell phone adapter" and not even need your phone anymore, just a bluetooth headset and ur little panda in your pocket... one less device to carry? pretty radical I know, but something to think about.

 

[danielliu88888]

then really, you just want the pandora to be integrated with a phone.

 

[musicalwoods]

Well really, he just wants to know if he can tether his phone to harness 3G and get data from the GPS module in the phone, as he has done with other software through his laptop.

Compatibility with certain 3G datacards has been confirmed, and I don't see why phone tethering would be a problem. As for the GPS, I'm not sure how it interfaces through a phone. USB and bluetooth GPS dongles have been said to work with gpsd, so if your phone's gps can be used in linux through gpsd I'd say that it is a pretty safe bet it would work with the Pandora.

I'm not an expert though, so it would take someone wiser than I to confirm it.

EDIT:
And yeah, integration with a phone would be really, really cool, but I doubt that'll ever happen. Make it a slider instead of a clamshell with phone modules and it would become an awesome bulky phone

 

[gruso]

There was an open source app (f-something?) for SonyEricsson phones that allowed some of this stuff. Answer calls from your PC, control the camera etc. I guess it's something that would have to be written for specific makes/models.

As always, if it can be done the question is not Why, it's Why Not.

 

[Chip]

The real issue is not so much software on the Pandora side, but whether or not the phone supports it. USB cell modems are almost always simple serial devices with a built-in USB-to-serial adapter. At the lowest level, they all accept standard modem commands and work pretty much the same. Cell phones are totally different. Each model requires a different driver, few of which are likely to be open enough to port.

Some phones allow tethering over bluetooth (which is somewhat standardized), but what is accessible on the other end (cell data, gps coords, voice calls) is entirely up to your phone and how its tethering software was written. The Pandora will certainly be able to tether over BT with some phones, but probably not all. It will probably have even lower compatibility for other features like GPS. The fact that every phone is different and most are not technically supposed to do this means that there will never be a perfect, do-it-all solution. Only time and trial and error will determine what works and what doesn't.

The only surefire way to use a phone as a modem is to not use it as a modem. Instead, use it as a wifi hotspot. The G1 and iPhone can both do it if you're willing to root/jailbreak your phone. There are at least a couple high end Nokia phones that can do it too. This will absolutely work and will cause the least ammount of headache.

 

[Trevsweb]

for SonyEricsson phones that allowed some of this stuff. Answer calls from your PC, control the camera etc. I guess it's something that would have to be written for specific makes/models.

As always, if it can be done the question is not Why, it's Why Not.


floats mobile agent.
there are others but i fear they all are not dead projects and dont support newer handsets. i still have a standard phone nothing too fancy so tethering for net access and the occasional SMS messaging would be my goals for this if it became possible.
i found the hotspot software for the s60 phones the other day i will check it out tho i wouldnt want my battery to die off so quickly so thats why a bluetooth or cable option is better imo

 

[darkblu]

The real issue is not so much software on the Pandora side, but whether or not the phone supports it. USB cell modems are almost always simple serial devices with a built-in USB-to-serial adapter. At the lowest level, they all accept standard modem commands and work pretty much the same. Cell phones are totally different. Each model requires a different driver, few of which are likely to be open enough to port.

Some phones allow tethering over bluetooth (which is somewhat standardized), but what is accessible on the other end (cell data, gps coords, voice calls) is entirely up to your phone and how its tethering software was written. The Pandora will certainly be able to tether over BT with some phones, but probably not all. It will probably have even lower compatibility for other features like GPS. The fact that every phone is different and most are not technically supposed to do this means that there will never be a perfect, do-it-all solution. Only time and trial and error will determine what works and what doesn't.

The only surefire way to use a phone as a modem is to not use it as a modem. Instead, use it as a wifi hotspot. The G1 and iPhone can both do it if you're willing to root/jailbreak your phone. There are at least a couple high end Nokia phones that can do it too. This will absolutely work and will cause the least ammount of headache.

interesting, didn't know about the the wifi hotspot software. yet, while i cannot disagree with what you said overall, i think BT tethering alone has become pretty much standard these days - PAM over BT is common even for middle-tier (gsm) cellphones. in contrast, wifi on a phone is an exotic feature (not to mention an often more power-hungry one). in this regard we definitiely need a BT PAM solution. my experience with that is limited to ubuntu 7.x where it was not particularly streamlined, but it worked. hopefully things have advanced since then.

ps: tethering for palmos over IR was the real deal back in the day : )

 

[SNESFAN]

then really, you just want the pandora to be integrated with a phone.

yea that'd be something to think about and to expand on it after talking about it and got the input of non-techie real people, what it would take for it to work in the "real world" this is what we discussed:

well if those Chinese sons-of-a-bitches can do it :lol: example http://mp4nation.net/catalog/index.php?mai...491cc35c055dbfb I'm sure we can figure out a solution on how to integrate a cell radio into the panda

big companies out there are trying to fill the gap between laptop and cell phone market, I've seen something a while back that was a fully intergrated XP based MID and a cell phone but it was horrible in the reviews (can't say from experience but the less than 2 hours operation/talktime REALLY threw me for a wtf loop, if the phone wasn't on standby/sleep then you'd have a dead brick in your pocket in less than 2 hours... very boo

I wouldn't suggest modding the panda to slide, but keep it clamshell or anything other than what it is.... except maybe a small lcd on the top.... maybe... but as is would be good imo. If the radio was hard wired in, when you got a call, you treat it like your cell + BT headset now... hit the button on the earpeice and answer, have the panda in your pocket or attached to your belt, voice dial, BT could tell you who was calling without having to look at your device at all

It would have to be a very nice interface and since android is open you could incorp the two probably fairly easy, nobody really stood behind me on my wanting to get the iphone os ported over, neither did my friends (what was the point?) so I'll probably give up on that one all together but maybe use bits and parts of android for the gui and whatnot but still run angstrom underneath if that is even a possibility and if the two are compatible open hardware + open phone software nice combo imo.

for this to work like my buddies were saying, it would have to be damn refined, they have the same bitches and complaints as I do about all the phones and crap out there, they settle with either looking nice, or functionality... you never really get both it's never the perfect solution. They'd be willing to adopt it if it was fast and they could indeed use the bt headset rather than holding it to their ear. pop that bitch out and jump on the net like they do now. I told them the size of the panda and they said although kinda big (referred to the size of a Nintendo DS), if it were to stay in their pocket or belt clip somehow it wouldn't be a huge issue. Battery life would be great, although powering a cell radio would kill the est 10 hours by a bunch, it still would be in the 7-8 hour range probably (theory)

This would be heavily Dependant on the BT for commands, dialing, and talking so hopefully the BT radio in there now is flawless or can/will be damn close.

I'd like to get your thoughts on this, and thanks again for the incite on the BT for tethering as that will probably be the immediate solution for me in the time being

 

[gilesjuk]

The pandora has the advantage of USB host. Just stick a USB 3G stick in the side of it, job done (for internet surfing etc).

Phones are more complex, they have to be in a low power state most of the time.

 

[Trevsweb]

problem with that solution giles is being stuck with a contract or a large upfront bill for pay as you go. to get a usb 3G stick where as tethering would come in handy for those emergency net needs that may crop up for me.

 

[gilesjuk]

I'm all for tethering. But the discussions here were on about hardware hacks to integrate mobile circuitry, I don't see the point as mobile technology changes pretty fast. But USB ports don't change that fast.

Operators seem to have ways of telling if you are tethered and then charge you extra.

 

[SNESFAN]

problem with that solution giles is being stuck with a contract or a large upfront bill for pay as you go. to get a usb 3G stick where as tethering would come in handy for those emergency net needs that may crop up for me.

I don't go with a company atm that uses sim cards, but I do have friends that do, as they tell me, you can switch phones whenever you want at no charge, just pop in a sim and boom phone changed, contacts and all that crap are stored on their sim card aparently. So you could have this as a "alternate phone" actually using a 3g card without a sim wouldn't be the best idea, I do know AT&T uses sim based 3g cards because I have installed them before for other people. Only thing is getting the radio to use both data and voice, looking at the chineese knock off phone, it doesn't seem to be too terribly difficult or they wouldn't be able to produce so many at such a low cost.

I'm all for tethering. But the discussions here were on about hardware hacks to integrate mobile circuitry, I don't see the point as mobile technology changes pretty fast. But USB ports don't change that fast.

Operators seem to have ways of telling if you are tethered and then charge you extra.

I use sprint atm and they've never charged me, I even called and told them what I was doing... stupid I know, but I got the real deal from customer support, they said although it is technically possible to do so, it is frowned apon. But as long as I didn't go above my 5GB monthy limit, I wouldn't be charged extra.

It is possible to tell if you are going agianst your contract and useing PAM service without paying for it, I haven't heard of one case in america anyway where they cancelled someone's account or charged them extra for doing so

EDIT: I have alot of experience hacking cell phones to enable PAM through sprint anyway all you usually need is the MSN number and you can bust into most phones service menus or actually write to the NAND it's self, I choose sprint because you gotta love EVDO rev 0 max i ever got 1.5Mbps avg 200~700Kbps ftw, what sprint tries to do anyway is force in cell phone manufacturers is to program in separate "accounts" for logging into their data service, one for your phone and one for the PAM function... all you have to do is tell the phone to use the same account as the phone uses for both the phone and pam... it's pretty simple if you've done it a few times, you learn where they try to hide this little entry... although they're getting more and more clever with it each time I get a new phone blackberries strangely enough don't have separate accounts.. works right out of the box samsung is notorious for it however :blink:


EDIT 2:quick look at android http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Android , this is most definitely the way to go on this project, already supporting GSM/EDGE, CDMA, EV-DO, and UMTS... also SMS messaging BT wifi... it's all there in the wiki page... so I'd like to see this project go this way if it ever gets off the ground, I am going to start looking into what actual radios it's compatible with atm and how one would actually make a card for this either from scratch by tearing out a radio from a crap phone or if 3g card could be edited to use voice and data, can't be done, the carrier identifies each card and "bars" it I'm guessing this is similar to mac filtering or something to that extent

any help with this part will be apperciated

 

[Prometheus]

problem with that solution giles is being stuck with a contract or a large upfront bill for pay as you go. to get a usb 3G stick

Pay-as-you-go mobile broadband is getting very affordable at the moment, at least in the UK. O2 are currently offering a Huawei E160 (they actually specify E160 on their posters, which I found refreshing - some providers seem to make this information difficult to find, or won't answer with anything useful if you enquire as to what modem you'll be getting) for ~£15 for this purpose. I'm not certain on the requirement for the first top-up, but going on their pay-as-you-go deals for everything else in the past, it's probably £10 or £15.

it doesn't seem to be too terribly difficult or they wouldn't be able to produce so many at such a low cost.

The trouble is, sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[SNESFAN]

alright well after alot of searching, this is what I found

http://www2.dealextreme.com:8080/details.dx/sku.12057
their website kinda is hard to get to but here here's a brief overviw of what it is

USB Tri-band GPRS Modem / Cell Phone Radio (GSM 900/1800/1900Mhz)

- Gain access to the Internet wherever you are (where GSM/GPRS network coverage is available)
- Takes normal cell phone SIM card
- Tri-band GSM frequency support: 900/1800/1900Mhz
- Maximum transfer speed: 115.2Kbps (limited by the GPRS service)
- Does not block calls while you're online: displays caller ID and offers a chance to take a call while a data connection is active (manufacturer claimed)
- Comes with handsfree earphone that allows voice calls as if you're using a cell phone
- Supports all normal cell phone features: caller ID, SMS (send+receive), voice mail, SIM card operations (e.g. phone book, sms storage), etc

it's a USB cell phone basically, i'm gonna pick one of these up to play with for a while and hell it's $32 USD... i guess I was right about my thinking it could be done cheaply and small form factor (although it's too big for me to want to tote around with me panda + "mini cell phone" poking out the side... very eww

making progress though

another more expensive option $86 USD
http://www2.dealextreme.com:8080/details.dx/sku.12415

looks to do the same thing but at twice the price

 

[gruso]

I didn't know you could get things like that! Cheap, too.

 

[valhalla]

looks to do the same thing but at twice the price

the only thing that worries me is that they could be stripped down to the point that they require some specific (windows-only) software to work, otherwise they look nice.