GP32 New Gp32 Dev'er Needs Help/advice

[mikie]

Hello to All!

Let me start by saying I'm a complete newbie to the GP32 and in fact I don't actually own one yet...

I'm trying to expand my programming skills and really want to work on handheld consoles - I'll be completely honest, I was going to go mad on another machine, the Tapwave Zodiac, but seeing as the company that makes that has just folded (And I just bought one!!) I not sure how far I'll be going. I guess that depends on how keen current owners and developers are, only time will tell ( I will carry on with the Palm OS side of things cos I invested a LOT of time in getting hold of material/learning etc already)

Anyway back to the GP32 - I'd like to ask a few questions please:

How good is the support from GamePark for the GP32?
Are there many software dev studios on board?
What does the future hold for the platform?
What is this GP32x I have read about - is it made by the same people?

I have downloaded the official SDK and I have to say that it is NOT very good - poorly documented and barely works!

Can anyone provide links to decent (ie recently updated) setting-up suggestions?
I have Visual Studio 6 and can get the examples that came with the SDK to compile but nothing actually happens - the GP32 graphic is displayed but nothing then happens - no error codes, nothing. All I can get to work is the "Open SMC" dialoge but as I haven't any to load that's no good. What have I missed here?

Also I have managed to download geepee32 and some example code (with extensions .FXE and .GXB) which work fine but then others (ending in .FPK or with more than one file) that wont run. Again, what am I failing to understand?

As I said at the top I'm a very keen developer really wanting to push myself in the handheld environment so any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[pea]

Hi,

Your first questions first:

How good is the support from GamePark for the GP32?
Non existant. Sorry. At support they are crap.

Are there many software dev studios on board?
Only a handful (literally 5 or 6?) comercial development companies - most of those Korean. Apart from that, there are MANY dev's making homebrew etc - see the full list on my site.

What does the future hold for the platform?
Same old as long as people keep deving for it. Mostly emulation and some medium-good quality homebrew games, and ports of lower spec PC games.

What is this GP32x I have read about - is it made by the same people?
The guys that ran gamepark split up into Gamepar and Gamepark Holdings. Gamepark Holdings (GPH) is adamant that they are NOT the same as Gamepark (GP). GP are developing a new machine with no pretenses as to being a GP32 successor - just a completely new machine. Nothing is known about it yet. GPH on the other hand have just unveiled their proposed machine, the GPX2, which IS the successor to the GP32, and eagerly awaited. It should be out in Oct, and I would seriously consider waiting until it is released and purchase it instead.


Now your other questions:
Most people prefer Mr.Mirkos SDK over the official one. It has documentation but is rather lacking (sorry Mirko ) but there are lots of examples with it, and most dev's here are familiar enough with it to help you.

Visual studio 6 isn't going to help you much I'm afraid, unless you can use it as your dev environment, and then use it to compile with GCC (The GNU Compiler Collection - a free c/c++ compiler).

You will need to install the latest version (r14) of devkitARM for GP32, which comes with GCC, and then install Mr.Mirkos SDK. There are some good tutorials on this site. Deving (by me and most people) is done in a text editor such as Crimson Editor, and compiled via the command line. This produces an .fxe file that you can use in geepee32.

If you wish to use an smc (Smart Media Card) file, there is an app wich creates virtual ones for you for use in geepee32. For example, if you are getting your app to laod any files, you will need to create aa virtual smc with these files in them, and then load that smc into geepee32 before running your fxe.

Links to follow when I find them.

EDIT:
Tutorial on setting up devkitARM and Mr.Mirkos SDK:
http://jcbnetwork.com/gp32/env.html
Post from other new dev'r
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=19735&st=0


Hope it helps
p.s. I don't wish to be rude, but you can easily get answers for most of these questions by reading a few key posts in these forums.

 

[mikie]

Hello Pea,

Thank you for your excellent help - I'm indebted to you!

I did have a look around but I missed some of this stuff - it seems to just depend on whether its an even or odd day - asking dumb-*ss questions, that is!

I got a little bit mixed up with the official SDKs blurb about using VS C++ 6 for Windows based development - the literature doesn't match the SDK and most of the english PDFs are unreadable. However I did find Oankali's page which looks good as I'm keen to use the official SDK for now.

I'm going to be using that and GeePee32 while I source a decent machine - they're going for arounf £60-80 on EBay UK - thats good isn't it?

As soon as I have one in my hand I'll follow the other advice and install the GCC based dev env. Am I on the right track now? :unsure:

 

[pea]

Not sure, as i have never used the official SDK - but I didn't think it was possible to compile a working example WITHOUT GCC? If you can just use VC++, then that's great

 

[DaveC]

Hello to All!

..
Anyway back to the GP32 - I'd like to ask a few questions please:

How good is the support from GamePark for the GP32?
Are there many software dev studios on board?
What does the future hold for the platform?
What is this GP32x I have read about - is it made by the same people?
..

​

The support is not really there from GamePark but you don't really need it. The community is good for support and there is no signing/DRM to worry about. Just make any app you want, then release.

There are alot of homebrew devs. That is the strength this is THE homebrew console to have because of uncomplicated developement. No OS to get in the way, no complicated encryption etc, unless you want it. Commercial? no not much, that is what the PSP is for.

Future? Well Gamepark is still around and making new hardware so that is good.

That other one is a newer version based on the GP32 kind of. It isnt backward compatible so it will be starting from scratch. It isn't really much more powerful than the current one it is only about 40 MHz faster, not a big difference.

Also don't judge the speed based on GeePee 32 the real hardware is much faster.

 

[Oankali]

Not sure, as i have never used the official SDK - but I didn't think it was possible to compile a working example WITHOUT GCC? If you can just use VC++, then that's great

​

Of course you can, that's why I always suggest to use the official SDK if you want to code with VC++. That way you have full access to the debugger of VC++, and in my oponion is one of the most valuable things. Even simple sounds works int the Windows SDK.

All my projects are coded with VC++ and then I compile them with GCC. Sometimes I have to adjust some things like type definitions and structure definitions. Otherwise, all is compatible.
Just to prove you that, in this thread (post #22) you can find the Windows version of my game Puzzle Mix, with a small Virtual SMC to start with.

Geepee32 is way slower than the GP32, but the VC++ SDK is faster and doesn't take into account CPU speed changes.

Oankali.

 

[mikie]

Thank you everyone for your input - esp Oankali as I'm trying to follow your official SDK method for VC++!

I downloaded the sample program at the link you provided (PuzzleMix) and it works perfectly in the "Windows Native Environment" - graphics and sound! So at least I know I'm not going mad or having to learn Korean to understand the SDK "manuals"...

I still have a problem with actually building anything on my PC - I've followed your (Oankali) instructions on setting up VC++ and again the same thing happens: I get the GP32 skin and a static screen with the "GP32" graphic but nothing else - the only options I have are EXIT or LOAD (SMC) and since I haven't built a SMC image I can't load one... what am I missing?

 

[mikie]

A-HA! I've managed to get the example programs to work!! YIPPEEE!

Right, I don't understand why or how but this is what I did:

I compiled the example program(s) using VC++ and the Official SDK (which by the way work straight out of the box)
Ran the program either through VC++ or as a standalone .exe
Then loaded the "VirtualSMC.smc" file that came with Oankali's example
And that's it...

Any ideas what's happening here?

 

[skeezix]

hey mikie -- GP32 and Zodiac scenes have a lot of overlap

GP is a worse company than TW in some respects (no involvement with community, as opposed to almost none , but they do know how to survive it seems as they've limped by for years. Theres no real future for the GP32 itself (its end of life, just coasting on the community) - they never really supported it much, and theres been no new games for years (and only a dozen total anyway). The trick with the GP32 is.. that doesn't matter. Theres no custom hardware (all simple off the shelf stuff), all nicely assembled. So its totally open (you can use their SDK, or make your own) and very easy to code for (since the SDKs people have made are pretty solid, and gcc is used for the toolchain etc.) So the GP32 has flourished for homebrew, and failed utterly as a commercial platform.

The GP32 has flourished for hb not really through merits of its own (though a little, and GP _has_ helped by making the open launcher etc) - it arrived at the right time for peopel to get into it. The GBA has had a much larger hb community due to the volume of units, but due to the commercial nature of it the hb community has shrunk over time. With the GP32, its _all_ hb pretty much so people tend to know whats going on when they come, and hang around awhile. You don't buy a GP32 expecting some new titles every week.. you buy it for fiddling with emus or writing your own stuff. So the community tends to grow or stay the same.. doesn't really shrink, though I'm sure the PSP and DS took a few people..

Since the GP32 community never depended on GP (Except to make more machines), GP can live or die with no impact to the existing community. (As opposed to TW, whose departure will deflate a lot of people, though they too really don't have much impact on the community.)

So anyway, the GP32 rocks, because the GP32x, gp32emu and gp32spain (Etc) communities rock. I've got tonnes of friends here, just because we all love to screw with our little white box. (If only it was black and smaller..

jeff

 

[skeezix]

If you're running a .exe, its not a GP-native runtime.. its a intel/windows runtime. ie: For msot SDKs in the universe (for any mobile platform) you can usually compile to native, or compile to mobile native -- debug and test locally, then compile for the mobile and test there. That lets you catch and fix logic bugs easily using local debugger etc, and then worry about hardware bugs later. (ie: Intel is forgiving about alignment where ARM is not; so a session with a .exe fixes your code up, but to handle alignment you often need a solid ARM emu or run on a real device.)

jeff

 

[mikie]

Hey skeezix/jeff,

Yeah, I noticed that there was a fair amount of cross-posters between GP32 and Zodiac. I was really in 2 minds about which to work on and decided on the Zod because of the PalmOS connection. Then of course TW went under and I'm looking at the GP32 with more interest. Definitely like the hb going on over here! No way am I turning my back on the Zod (or POS) though - I'm just looking for a bit more support as I'm very much a desktop programmer at the mo...

I also looked at the GBA and DS (and briefly PSP) scenes but I kinda agree with your assessment - way too many commercial interests involved.

The GP32 just looks sweet and the fact there aren't many games makes it even more desirable to code for (know what I mean?)

"If you're running a .exe, its not a GP-native runtime"
Yep, got that - I'm just getting a feel for things and if all goes well on the Wintel platfrom I'll install the ARM gcc stuff and kick-on from there

 

[skeezix]

I'd skip on the desktop-side mucking - you've already admitted you're good at desktop coding, so install GeePee32 (a GP32 emulator) and get compiling for the GP32 proper Nothing better than diving right in.

There is, as you hinted at, other Palm OS devices too (and Pocket PC as well, natch.) And RIM and Symbian etc etc.

Pocket PC is probably one of the easiest to code for, though GP32 is pretty satisfying since theresno OS in the way or to hold your hand

jeff

 

[RobertJ]

I took the same route Oankili uses, dev on VC6 as it lets you at least debug the damn code, and recompile and test occasionally to the real thing.

I'd much rather do the debugging on the machine itself, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do that.

 

[Oankali]

A-HA! I've managed to get the example programs to work!! YIPPEEE!

Right, I don't understand why or how but this is what I did:

I compiled the example program(s) using VC++ and the Official SDK (which by the way work straight out of the box)
Ran the program either through VC++ or as a standalone .exe
Then loaded the "VirtualSMC.smc" file that came with Oankali's example
And that's it...

Any ideas what's happening here?

​

The Windows GP32 console needs a virtual SMC to start properly.
Some GP32 programs needs external files as bitmaps or sounds that are usually located in the gp:\gpmm\<program_name> folder in the SMC.
When you program under Windows you don't have a SMC so this type of programs need a Virtual SMC with the external files inside (use gpdev.exe utility for that).
The example program is standalone and doesn't need any external file. That's why the virtual SMC you found with PuzzleMix did work correctly.
In fact PMix is also standalone. If I've included a Virtual SMC, it was to make saving of options and scores possible.

And now a little trick, if your program is standalone, or does check correctly for SMC errors, you can use any file on your computer, even if it's not a virtual SMC. In that case, the program will get SMC errors. My games usually checks for these errors, that's why PMix can even work with a wrong file, but you won't be able to save anything.

Oankali.

 

[mikie]

Thank you Oankali,

You are the font of all reliable gp32 deving knowledge so far! I had begun to unravel some of what you said above over the weekend but it's great to have it confirmed by someone who knows what they're talking about. No doubt I'll be back with more Qs...

CHEERS

Mikie

 

[DaveC]

Thank you Oankali,

You are the font of all reliable gp32 deving knowledge so far! I had begun to unravel some of what you said above over the weekend but it's great to have it confirmed by someone who knows what they're talking about. No doubt I'll be back with more Qs...

CHEERS

Mikie

​

Have you ferreted out some GP32 BLU hardware yet or are you just using the emulator?

 

[mikie]

Hey DaveC

Still using Windows Native and the Emulator at the moment but I've got my eye on a tidy bundle on Ebay - bidding frenzy ahoy! I'm reading and haven't posted recently cos I'm trying to make progress on 2 fronts: Palm OS and GP32 so although I get about 8-10 hours done every day its roughly split between the two... so progess is being made just slowly. Still, any advice or help is more than welcome!

Cheers

Mikie

ps
Cant wait for the new gps...

 

[DaveC]

Hey DaveC

Still using Windows Native and the Emulator at the moment but I've got my eye on a tidy bundle on Ebay - bidding frenzy ahoy! I'm reading and haven't posted recently cos I'm trying to make progress on 2 fronts: Palm OS and GP32 so although I get about 8-10 hours done every day its roughly split between the two... so progess is being made just slowly. Still, any advice or help is more than welcome!

Cheers

Mikie

ps
Cant wait for the new gps...

​

Just make sure it is a BLU (backlit) version. The others are not as good screen wise.

 

[Jaw]

yeah, flu's are not that good screen wise, they take a lot of looking after, dust, fingermarks etc all a lot of trouble to get rid of, and most of the time it gets worse when you try to fix it.
but overclocking is good on them (mine go to 200mhz + each)