Commercial Games


WarmFluffyUK

The Big Wad Bolf.
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I was answering another post on this forum, and a little thought suddenly struck me, more of a question really:

If a commercial game is taken off the market, and nobody is able to purchase the it any longer. Where does the morality lay in others distributing the game for free?

I think I already know the answer, and that would probably be in the eyes of the law. i.e. It is not a shareware or public domain, therefore you cannot copy the game, free or otherwise. So how do others get their hands on it? Am I right in thinking we need to contact the original game developers, and get their permission to do so?

I would love to hear the views of you all, especially from people like Craig who are actual retailers.

TTFN,
Clare :mellow: .
 
are you talking about newer generation games or older?

But if i read your post correctly, then yes, i don't understand it either. Furthermore, i remember seeing post on this site years ago, people stated if you wanted a port of something without source code you would have to code it from scratch, now in terms of a game, wouldn't that infringe on copyrights? Especially the characters and game scenarios? Especially if you coded it for a specific media and then distributed it.

In the case of roms, if that is what you were referencing, i'm even more confused. A game that is 15 years old, will NOT be in any retail store, EXCEPT GAMEBOY ADVANCE REMAKES OF SNES GAMES, to make that specific game manufacturer money, yet its illegal to download and own more than 24 hours. what is the problem? If Nintendo or Sega had a pay per download online store or something i could see a problem, but neither do. And like someone said before on a previous post, why aren't stores like EB or Gamestops illegal. The distribute games, all be it for money, but none of the original game manufacturers are seeing anything from the resell of their games.
 
my own dumb opinion:

if i wrote something, why shouldn't i have the right to decide when, how, and on what terms it's available?
 
are you talking about newer generation games or older?

But if i read your post correctly, then yes, i don't understand it either. Furthermore, i remember seeing post on this site years ago, people stated if you wanted a port of something without source code you would have to code it from scratch, now in terms of a game, wouldn't that infringe on copyrights? Especially the characters and game scenarios? Especially if you coded it for a specific media and then distributed it.

In the case of roms, if that is what you were referencing, I'm even more confused. A game that is 15 years old, will NOT be in any retail store, EXCEPT GAMEBOY ADVANCE REMAKES OF SNES GAMES, to make that specific game manufacturer money, yet its illegal to download and own more than 24 hours. what is the problem? If Nintendo or Sega had a pay per download online store or something i could see a problem, but neither do. And like someone said before on a previous post, why aren't stores like EB or Gamestops illegal. The distribute games, all be it for money, but none of the original game manufacturers are seeing anything from the resell of their games.

I'm referring mainly to Pinball Dreams for the GP32, but this could really be any old game. I read that Pinball Dreams is no longer available so how are newbies expected to get hold of it, unless there is an alternate outlet?

my own dumb opinion:

if i wrote something, why shouldn't i have the right to decide when, how, and on what terms it's available?

Well yes I agree there. I wrote a version of Berzerk a few months back, but decided to put it on the public domain. But if I had decided that I didn't want it being distributed freely, I would be quite annoyed!

I guess we WOULD have to ask the developers if someone can distribute the game for free as it's no longer available. But then, if there's a market for it, they will want to start charging again. However, knowing how ignorant the guys at GamePark have been in the past, I think they will say "Tough luck, you missed it kiddo".
 
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The truth is that sometimes old games are published again on various platforms. See for example Prince of Persia (on mobile phones), and some old arcades (including PacMan and Space Invaders) published as "arcade collection" available in stores.

Examples:

Midway arcade treasures 1
Midway arcade treasures 2
Midway arcade treasures 3

So, until the copyright does not expire, distributing copies may one day constitute a damage for the copyright holder.

The point is: even if a commercial game is taken off the marke, it may be remarketed in the future.
 
Remembers that morals/ethics, law and retail are all often in disagreement :)

ie: Nintendo will tell you emulation is illegal, when it is very obviously fully legal and been going on since the 1970s; furthermore, some will tell you its wrong to rip rOMS, but its certainly ethical to carry your own legally owned ROMS around in your pocket on a mobile device. Legally.. well.. depends.

So any discussion has to be careful to split things up between the three .. ethics, legals, and retails .. two are polsitions of interest/opinion, while one is nailed down (though sometimes gray.)

Legals - depends on the medium and topic, age, your country and legislation, etc; ie: You'd never know but in Canada its legal to copy mp3s around, since they're charging us on blank CD media (and hard drives etc); total bullshit, but strange laws do come out. Likewise, in the US, the DMCA is a total crock of crap, but it does at least have an interesting provision to allow you to copy software around that is nolkonger supported (go check the wording carefully as I'm just glossing.) So things certainly vary by area. Furthermore, music and ROMs are very different of course, and game and application software different yet again. In some countries, decryption isn't legal, while others it is. The law is fairly clear, and doesn't vary much by age -- an application that is 3 years old or 20 years old is still likely owned by _someone_ and only that entity has the right to decide what to do with it. (Fair use and such doesn't apply to software as it does to music or artwork, usually.) So abandonware is really bullkaka for most applications (though the reality is that software thats been 100% dead for 20 years is probably not being looked after, the law is still clear about about it regardless of what you choose to do.)

Retail (and individuals!) - will take whatever profitd them more.

Ethics - Varies by person of course; my own stance is that distributing IP that is still viable (on the shelf or not, viability is whethor it _could_ be on the shelf) is plain out. ie: Distributing Infocom game story files isn't kocher, since once in awhile they do pop up.. a few years ago the Activision boys were shipping collection of them, such as the Comedy set, or Masterpieces, etc. SCUMMVM games are pretty dead, but you neve rknow if Lucas will put them out. On the other hand, no one has ever remade an Atari ST game, so I think most of them are beyond abandonware to the point of 'never heard of', so those are open game. Certainly, anythign you _bought_ you are entitled to.. if they dont' support it, thats their tough nuggets.. 20 years later, its still your purchased material as they didn't declare any lifespan on your license (and back in the day you actually bought things, not licensed like nowadays.)

If something was on sale a year ago, its not kocher to distribute it for free; its still viable, and its not your decision but theirs legally.

jeff
 
in the case of pinball dreams then yes i would say you'd have to get the developers permission. As far as i'm aware it was never released on SMC and was a download only game, and even if you could distribute it, weren't the downloaded games on JoyGP and then the Gamepark website to the specific GP32 that was registered? So they wouldn't work anyhow if you wanted to distribute it.

If i developed a pay for download game, not a cart game, then yes, i would be peeved if someone was distributing it for free without getting my permission first.
 
in the case of pinball dreams then yes i would say you'd have to get the developers permission. As far as i'm aware it was never released on SMC and was a download only game, and even if you could distribute it, weren't the downloaded games on JoyGP and then the Gamepark website to the specific GP32 that was registered? So they wouldn't work anyhow if you wanted to distribute it.

If i developed a pay for download game, not a cart game, then yes, i would be peeved if someone was distributing it for free without getting my permission first.

I already tried to contact every GP32-Game coder to get the right to offer them at the GP32x File Archive (even if I had to pay a license fee), but I did get ZERO responds.

Sad, really sad.
All they'd have to do is say "Okay", as I am able to decrypt the games, so I could easily offer them :(
 
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it's a damn shame, there were a few good Commercial games for the GP32 and its hard enough to get actual SMC games, but the ones that were on JoyGP for download only are going to be all but forgotten and enjoyed by no one that will be getting GP32s in the future.
 
You said something about a pay per download service for older games? Isn't that exactly what nintendo is doing with the revolution?
 
Kind of off-topic a bit, but has anyone checked out gametap.com? It's basically a monthy subscription (they offer a trial), where by you play old games and roms online. Nintendo has not signed out, but there are some good ones there. Basically classic gaming, but maybe not in the strictest of sense. It just amazing how companies really are starting to make money off of their once forgotten games. Just look at all the Atari games that are finding their way back to market in collection-consoles.
 
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