Airpocalypse Now - Pollution Red Alert in Real Life
- Thread starter Klumpen
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ElPoco
Hardcore Member
Let's ask Volkswagen to solve the problem. They seem to be pretty good at making pollution somehow disappear...
I'm clueless here. What did they do?
Was it something like "off the charts = off the books"?
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comradekingu
Glowing ember
WW1/2 gasmasks seem only too appropriate in all the dystopian and gray despair.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Can't they just make it rain again?
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WizardStan
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Volkswagen was caught cheating on emissions tests: their diesel vehicles were programmed to detect when the emissions test was running and then change some settings so that it would produce less pollution, albeit with less power. This has been going on for a very long time, apparently.
Any repercussions or did our local corporate parties (CDU/SPD/etc...) completely shield them again?
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WizardStan
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Their stock took a massive hit, about half what it was 6 months ago, and customer faith has been lost so people aren't buying as many VW vehicles (all vehicles, not just the affected ones), but as for legal responses I don't think there's been any movement there.
Kev2442
Still French
Did other brands in the VW group like SEAT or Audi take an impact ? If I remember correctly, they also cheated but as it's not Volkswagen that's written on'em, maybe sales didn't go that much downwards.
fusion_power
Advanced Member
Before the VW affair, I didn't even knew the USA had something like an Environmental Protection Agency. 
I mean, the land with the biggest gasoline drinking cars cares about some few Diesel cars? These are very rare to find in the USA actualy, most are normal gasoline and that's where the US car industry is focussed. No wonder they want to get rid off the annoying EU Diesel cars there.
Don't forget, stuff like that seems to be legal in the USA:
Problem in China is more the dirty coal industry, to many old factories and no real environmental laws plus tons of corruption. I also heared that cars in China have no catalytic converter, not sure if true but it would explain alot.
I mean, the land with the biggest gasoline drinking cars cares about some few Diesel cars? These are very rare to find in the USA actualy, most are normal gasoline and that's where the US car industry is focussed. No wonder they want to get rid off the annoying EU Diesel cars there.Don't forget, stuff like that seems to be legal in the USA:
Problem in China is more the dirty coal industry, to many old factories and no real environmental laws plus tons of corruption. I also heared that cars in China have no catalytic converter, not sure if true but it would explain alot.
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Wally
I am a banana!
China also has a lot of factories, smokers and car drivers. The roads are always messy and a lot of the stuff ran on the roads isn't that efficient.
It kinda explains why people migrate to other countries as it's really not liveable.
The world needs to stop producing in china unless they can make factories more efficient, Apple is already doing this. Some sort of consortium would be good.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Note that apple isn't forcing its subcontractors, or even itself to actually use renewable energy there. They've just built solar panel arrays and sold the electricity on the open market, and it'll probably end up getting used quite close to the arrays, rather than by anyone in the smoggy cities where their factories and shops are.
It's a valid approach to global warming, but this sort of trading arrangement rarely makes a lot of difference to localised pollution challenges.
It's a valid approach to global warming, but this sort of trading arrangement rarely makes a lot of difference to localised pollution challenges.
WizardStan
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China has about 4 times the population of the USA crammed into a country that's slightly smaller, and I don't know if the terrain is as habitable as in the USA. Saying they have "a lot" is like saying, I dunno, a whale is "pretty big": technically accurate but doesn't really do the scale justice.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
Nothing really unusual in Beijing - PM2.5 levels have been high for years and you can notice when you land there that the air is not as "clean" as other places you live in.
But calling it "airpocalypse" is stupid and disinformation. There are very polluted places all around the world (Mexico is well known for very poor air quality as well), and people don't die MUCH more of lung cancer even because of that. Yeah, lung cancer are higher in Beijing versus the normal, but the risk of lung cancer for 100 000 inhabitants is still very much within the norm (right now Kentucky in the US as a state has as much lung cancer as Beijing).
But calling it "airpocalypse" is stupid and disinformation. There are very polluted places all around the world (Mexico is well known for very poor air quality as well), and people don't die MUCH more of lung cancer even because of that. Yeah, lung cancer are higher in Beijing versus the normal, but the risk of lung cancer for 100 000 inhabitants is still very much within the norm (right now Kentucky in the US as a state has as much lung cancer as Beijing).
fusion_power
Advanced Member
I remember an old geography-teacher of me, must be 25 Years ago or so. he was a weird and crazy guy but he told us back then that one billion chinese people want a car, and if they get one and start to live like we do here in the western world, then goodbye Planet Earth. It looks more and more like that come to be true.
I hope the renewable ecology industry grows faster than the old fashioned dirty one. Not only in China but also in the USA and the rest of the world. Here in germany we are on a good way I guess. We still have coal power plants but they get less, same with Atomic energy (which go to zero soon). Wind/Solar/Water power grows more and more, I like that actualy. I remember a news from Summer this year that on some days the renewable energies (mostly solar and wind) covered almost 100% of the needed energy in Germany. Sadly, we don't have that many sunny days here over the year and storing to much energy if it's not needed is still an big issue.
I hope the renewable ecology industry grows faster than the old fashioned dirty one. Not only in China but also in the USA and the rest of the world. Here in germany we are on a good way I guess. We still have coal power plants but they get less, same with Atomic energy (which go to zero soon). Wind/Solar/Water power grows more and more, I like that actualy. I remember a news from Summer this year that on some days the renewable energies (mostly solar and wind) covered almost 100% of the needed energy in Germany. Sadly, we don't have that many sunny days here over the year and storing to much energy if it's not needed is still an big issue.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
That reasoning is a little stupid, because it's assuming like the world is in a static state and we would run out of ideas on how to better balance our means or production or how we consume things - which is not really the case. In an actual economy, if resources go scarce, then prices go up and then not everyone ends up being able to pay for petrol and things like that in the future. On top of that, cars are less and less practical as people live in cities, and the urban population is steadily rising. Cities are way more efficient in terms of resource sharing that folks living in the countryside, far apart from each other.
On top of that, the natality rates are slowing down about everywhere on Earth, which will help curb consumption within reasonable limits in the future, too.
There are things that can go wrong, but there are lots of things the system as a whole can do right as well.
Let me remind you that about everyone thought we would nuke each other out in the 60s-70s, yet we have survived until now without a nuclear apocalypse, so obviously as a specie we also know how to deal with risks and manage them as we go.
As Douglas Adams said a few years ago, it isn't about wether the planet will survive us. Earth has survived many catastrophes and other forms of life found ways.
The real question is, if it can keep sustaining us. Humans are not only making this planet a living hell for a lot of other species but also for themselves.
Regarding the power plants in China: Afaik the real problem is, that they are completely out of date and don't have any emission filters whatsoever.
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
The good is that China is investing in nuclear power massively and that should reduce their CO2 emissions significantly withing a decade or two.
