So do you reckon we should use kickstarter...

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by craigix, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. craigix

    craigix Mega GP Mania

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    This is not official, or anything really, I'm just looking for opinions.


    Last time, with the Pandora1, the banks dropped us like a hot stone when they saw over $1,000,000 go in to our account in 2 days.


    We don't want that to happen again.


    Actually I'd not trust a bank with it again even if they promised me the world.


    So I'm wondering, kickstarter, indigogo etc. a better more controlled approach even with their big %?


    If we are going to do the Pandora2, even if it's not for a couple of years, this is one aspect I'd like to get set up and solid so we know how to handle it.


    Would you be happy to use one of these sites?
     
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  2. gadgetoid

    gadgetoid Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes. Although I'd be sad that they get a cut, but there's really very little way to acquire money without someone getting a cut of it these days.


    I'd like to see a full spectrum of options, too, typical of those you get from Kickstarter.


    A single Pandora, a two-pack, premium colours, reseller packs, and so on and so forth.


    Kickstarter adds an additional air of legitimacy to projects, too, and offers buyer protection ( if I recall correctly )
     
  3. -Tj-

    -Tj- Active Member

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    Whatever would work. However, how would this affect customers that want to jump in late to the game, after the funding period ends? Would they have to wait to place their order after all the funders' orders are fulfilled?
     
  4. gadgetoid

    gadgetoid Moderator Staff Member

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    Nah, they'd just order the 'Premium' version, badum tshhh!
     
  5. Wrath Of Khan

    Wrath Of Khan Soul soother...

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    Ok I just read up on what kickstarters all about on their site.If it works for you then why not.I would be happy to fund a Pandora 2 this way. Question: How would it work?backers would be funding their own pandoras but also the project in general?So would their be additional funds gathered to create enough stock to sell the P2 to new customers and not just the backers?
     
  6. Saber

    Saber Advanced Member

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    It's up to you but Indiegogo seems the better choice of the two according to this.
     
  7. gunrock

    gunrock Member

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    I thought that from now on, you and Ed said you'd never do new hardware with up front payments? Just release it, when ready and take orders?


    I guess developing Pandora 2 is a lot more complex and costly than iCP or Project 3.


    I personally would happily fund a kickstarter project, provided you get 99.5% of the cash. How do they cream off their slice?
     
  8. craigix

    craigix Mega GP Mania

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    They and the processing companies take about 9% of the money.


    I do prefer Indiegogo over kickstarter, but I suppose we can look in to all this if it's the best way forward.


    On the topic of 'just launching it' - the problem is no where will allow us to take, for example, 4000 orders in a few days.


    You just can't get permission to do it - or even if you have permission, as we did for £750,000 with the Pandora1, the bank


    can just pull the plug anyway - which was exactly what they did.


    It's fine for people like Amazon etc. they have internal deals with the card companies, but for us, we need to go though


    someone else who will allow it to happen.
     
  9. Wrath Of Khan

    Wrath Of Khan Soul soother...

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    Really? Is that because they are considered pre-orders and therefore disallowed or is it just the large sums of money involved that worries them? Well indiegogo or kickstart should be ok if that's what ye decide upon.
     
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  10. craigix

    craigix Mega GP Mania

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    It's the large sum of money.


    With the iControlpad they were all right with the volume of orders (there were about 1000 in the first couple of days),


    as the iCP was only $50-$70.


    But the Pandora2 is likely to be $499 - No bank would be comfortable with that amount of money going though unless


    you are Sony, Nintendo, Apple etc.
     
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  11. Korlithiel

    Korlithiel Still Fresh

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    I don't think this sort of thing makes a notable difference to end users, aside from the increased cost that's required to make up for the losses.


    Personally, I liked the old system fine but since there is more faith in something like kickstarter I'm fine with going through them.
     
  12. Caine

    Caine Hardcore Member

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    So can kickstarter:

     
  13. Prometheus

    Prometheus Well-Known Member

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    ^ Didn't Kickstarter do that with the XStylus?


    Anyway, yeah, I'd be fine with that method of funding, myself, so long as they didn't end up causing trouble, too! :p
     
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  14. Korlithiel

    Korlithiel Still Fresh

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    I thought the XStylus project was canceled due to a lack of funding. Hope it wasn't just canceled.
     
  15. PokeParadox

    PokeParadox Founder of Pirate Games - Penjin Coder Staff Member

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    XStylus was cancelled!? :(
     
  16. DaMummy

    DaMummy Soldier Paste

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    how was it cancelled when it was produced, and sold, WizardStan might even have some more for sale
     
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  17. Wrath Of Khan

    Wrath Of Khan Soul soother...

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    ^^ Yeah that's what I thought.That guy posted a video about it and edd has some in stock I believe.
     
  18. LineOf7s

    LineOf7s Active Member

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    It wasn't cancelled. He tried funding it on Kickstarter and it didn't reach its goal. If you don't reach your goal on Kickstarter then nobody gets anything and it's game over (for now). So Elton rejigged things and headed over to Indigogo. If one doesn't meet one's funding goal on Indiegogo then the project still gets whatever was pledged up to that point. As it turns out, I believe (long time ago now) that the project DID meet its (reduced) funding goal anyway, the Xstylii were produced and sent out. Mine have been sitting around since early September waiting for a Pandora to use them in.


    Get some from THIS LINK RIGHT HERE.
     
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  19. Neelix

    Neelix Insecticidal Maniac

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    The X-Stylus KickStarter campaign failed after it ended because some of the participants had pledged more than than they could afford. Those payments couldn't be processed, so the goal was not actually met. Kickstarter refunded eveyone, and Elton ran the campaign a second time through IndieGoGo. The second time around the funding was successful, so Elton was able to complete the project.


    - Neelix
     
  20. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    My bank won't have problems with that massive money coming in, it's more the credit card company and PayPal will cause issues...


    So for bank transfers, it would easily work out with my bank.


    Looks like UK banks are more suspicious than German banks, never had a problem here.


    What I'll try to do is fund the full development (prototyping, etc.) from Pandora 1 sales.


    If Global Components proves to be as reliable and good as I think (looks that way right now, but you never know before production really happens :) ), then I'm not afraid of taking preorders and money from preorders when development is finished and all that's left is the production.


    Whether we'll do this from preorders OR using kickstarter and then sending out units doesn't matter, as long as the money for the full production comes in, everything is fine.


    If Pandora 1 sells really well for a while, I would even be able to produce 1000 units upfront.


    So basically, my approach would be:


    * Use Pandora 1 / iCP / Whatever-sales to fully develop the Pandora 2.


    * When that's done, either produce 1000 units (if enough money is left) and sell them or just use preorders / crowdfunding to do the actual production run.


    The most important thing is that we're working with reliable companies and have EVERYTHING finished (cases, PCBs, etc.) before we do that, so that we really can assure production will work smoothly this time.


    We learned a lot from Pandora 1.


    BTW: I've had a meeting with TI, and it seems the SoC I'd like to use will not be available before mid 2013 (Cortex A15 based).


    The technical documentation and samples for the SoC is available before that, so we can start designing everything earlier, but the Pandora 1 still has a long life left :)
     

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