Did I post my topic in the wrong section?

Discussion in 'Ask EvilDragon Questions' started by steven, May 3, 2015.

  1. steven

    steven Still Fresh

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    After the Microsoft build 2015 reports that have just come out, I asked the question: could we use Windows on this hardware? I quickly got some ill considered responses and my topic is now locked. I tried to launch a support ticket but this did not seem to work.

    I am actually not a gamer-although I used to be. I have a different use in mind for this device - that would require Windows. I look forward to your response ED.
     
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  2. Wally

    Wally I am a banana! Staff Member

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    There's several other posts on this topic already. It's not feasible to run Windows on the Pyra as that would require different drivers and others blah blah blah.

    The Pyra is designed to run Linux and emulate subsequent platforms. If you want to run Windows then you buy a Windows device with the appropriate chipset (X86)


    Hence why I locked your topic because you did very little research (and neglected to use the search function on the forums as your answer is there).
     
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  3. Elw3

    Elw3 ƐʍlƎ

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    Not sure if you are trolling or not but:

    Do you realize that windows is against the very principles of this device?

    It is made by ppl who hate and despise windows for the very reason to avoid companies like MS.

    So yea, you will get a lot of bashing for that question.

    Anyway, its an open device, it could be very possible that you can get windows running on it. But you have to do that for yourself as i doubt devs would care.
     
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  4. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    Okay just for clarity, The Pyra is going to use an using an ARM based processor, not an x86 processor that Windows and all the software you run needs. There are some emulation methods, but they can be slow.  There may be Native Linux equivalent software that could meet your needs. 

    This device is designed to be an open platform, Using Windows is not in the best interest of the goal of this community driven project.
     
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  5. Elw3

    Elw3 ƐʍlƎ

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    I thought Windows can use ARM too these days. Am i misled by x86 tablets?
     
  6. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    the ARM version of Windows really never went anywhere, plus can't run any of the software that a normal PC can run. The majority of the tablets that run windows are using intel Atom based processors (x86).
     
  7. edgex004

    edgex004 Advanced Member

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    To be fair, the article he linked previously was for a demo of the new ARM version of Windows 10. The thread should probably just get moved to off topic so all the linux folks around here can simply continue to ignore it.
     
  8. steven

    steven Still Fresh

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    Wally

    "There's several other posts on this topic already.

    It's not feasible to run Windows on the Pyra as that would require different drivers and others blah blah blah.The Pyra is designed to run Linux and emulate subsequent platforms. If you want to run Windows then you buy a Windows device with the appropriate chipset (X86). Hence why I locked your topic because you did very little research (and neglected to use the search function on the forums as your answer is there)."

    Thank you for your response Wally.

    I apologise for not using the search function but I am new to this forum. I also found it was not possible to cut and paste into this field, so I had to change a setting to emulate keystrokes on Dragon NaturallySpeaking in order to be able to use this.

    unfortunately it is not possible to use Dragon on Linux

    Elw3

    "Not sure if you are trolling but: Do you realize that windows is against the very principles of this device?

    It is made by ppl who hate and despise windows for the very reason to avoid companies like MS. So yea, you will get a lot of bashing for that question. Anyway, its an open device, it could be very possible that you can get windows running on it. But you have to do that for yourself as i doubt devs would care."

    Thank you also for your response Elw3

    I will have to look up trolling

    I apologise to anyone whose toes I may have stepped on by making this suggestion.

    I am (naively) unfamiliar with the relevant history that has led people to dislike Microsoft

    Sarcasm Dispenser

    Okay just for clarity, The Pyra is going to use an using an ARM based processor, not an x86 processor that Windows and all the software you run needs.There may be Native Linux equivalent software that could meet your needs.

    This device is designed to be an open platform,

    Using Windows is not in the best interest of the goal of this community driven project.

    Thank you for your (sarcastic? :) ) response Sarcasm Dispenser

    I have only just come across this device and I think the developers are really onto something here

    I also appreciate that this is a community

    with the utmost sincerity, may I suggest that an open platform should not also be closed

    Semantics aside, this (or similar) would be a great device to be able to run Dragon NaturallySpeaking

    in the past there have been pocketable Windows-based clamshell devices but, for my part, they were before their time

    there is no comparable speech recognition software

    the surface pro 3 runs Dragon well but obviously does not fit in a pocket or sit well against the side of the head

    the following three determinants for a discrete device to perform speech recognition are progressing

    1. CPU nanotechnology

    2. the Windows 10 technical preview is significantly faster than Windows 8

    3. Dragon 13 (released last year) is competent on more humble hardware

    the next few years will probably see my expectations realised

    I am merely an enthusiastic amateur - impressed with this device.

    I suggest an additional use for it, and hope to build a bridge here.

    The key question is: is this community exclusively interested in gaming?

    But please do not get me wrong, the passion for play has led to many great technical innovations.

    I only have to look at the low price of wireless gaming headsets (and computer hardware generally) compared with the more limited products of last decade.

    My use of speech recognition-which pushes the limits of personal computer technology-has brought me back to the computer gaming field.

    In my day it was the ZX Spectrum, and Flash Gordon was a scary movie:)

    Best regards to all
     
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  9. Elw3

    Elw3 ƐʍlƎ

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    So it all boils down to this speech software thing?

    Hm that is marked as running fine via wine. Wine is an windows library wrapper that basically just pretends that you linux is windows when you run an windows program.

    Of course that is pretty useless if the program requires "normal" pc hardware so you would need to emulate it anyway.

    It appears there are many other projects but none of them has acceptable result. Interesting, the closed usable seems to be the code that google uses for the speech search, how good is that?
     
  10. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    It most certainly isBut it wouldn't be possible to use it on the Pyra (at least not right away) since, as explained, it uses an ARM cpu and Dragon Naturally Speaking is only compiled for x86 CPUs. There's an x86 emulator that can be combined with WINE that may allow it to work. Whether it will work well or be too CPU intensive is a different question, and exactly how long it would take to get a reasonable WINE implementation that non-technical users could use is a huge matter of debate.

    It's not, and cannot be. You're free to run whatever you want, but just as an XBox can't run PS2 games, so too an ARM CPU can't run x86 applications, not without a complex emulation layer.
    The surface pro also has an x86 processor.
    Of course not, I'm planning on porting my companies speech recognition software to it as soon as I have it in hand.
     
  11. milkshake

    milkshake Advanced Member

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    You might be able to get a version of windows 10 to work on pyra. It won't run software designed for x86 or x64 CPUs though.
     
  12. FaeMinx

    FaeMinx Rainbow Liberation Instigation

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    ^How exactly?


    I know nothing about win10, but I was under the impression it would be impossible to get Windows onto any mobile device that isn't specifically designed and locked to it.
     
  13. edgex004

    edgex004 Advanced Member

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    There are lots of hacked/cracked versions of x86 Windows out there. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen with ARM Windows eventually. Probably wouldn't happen for a while, and it probably would come preinstalled with malware.
     
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  14. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    That is implied with running Windows.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2015
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  15. Linux-SWAT

    Linux-SWAT Hardcore Member

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    I second that.
     
  16. steven

    steven Still Fresh

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    Thank you for your responsesI have not tried to run Dragon on wine but I understand that this performs poorly.

    According to the recent build conference it seems that Microsoft is trying to leverage progress made by the open platform spaces.

    When I came across this device I wondered if it would be able to accept a more powerful Intel processor such as the current core M. I remember seeing a picture of the system on a chip? That was about the size of a cell phone. Even if the thickness of this device had to be increased in order to accept that extra processing power it might still be acceptable to people willing to stow a thicker brick in their pocket. As further progress is made this might even be able to return to the present design scale.

    I may be barking up the wrong tree here.

    Should I still expect a reply from ED? I note that there is a pinned notice at the top of this board that requests he make the initial reply.
     
  17. FaeMinx

    FaeMinx Rainbow Liberation Instigation

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    ^ I don't think you should hold your breath for ED, he's a busy man and this isn't exactly new territory he would be covering.


    Besides, the first response you got was from a mod, so you may consider yourself officially responded to.


    I can tell you now, there is absolutely no way the Pyra will be redesigned at this point, even if that processor was available to us... We would go ahead with what we have now and then look at a cpu board upgrade in the future that wouldn't require us to redesign the whole device.


    It very well could be possible that sometime down the line an x86 upgrade becomes available for the Pyra, but don't hold your breath.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2015
  18. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    Not necessarily wrong, just tired. That tree has been barked up a lot in the last few months. We get it, there's a desire for an x86 (or more accurately, Windows) version of what the Pyra promises to be, but there's a lot of reasons that isn't going to happen soon.Be assured that due to the modular nature of the Pyra it is entirely possible that it could happen in the future, someone can make a CPU board with an x86 processor on it that could, hypothetically, run Windows, but that's at least a few months after the initial shipping, and probably closer to a couple of years.
     
  19. ekianjo

    ekianjo Hardcore Member

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    You would need a BIOS too for an X86 architecture. Who's going to take care of it ? It won't create itself my magic... 
     
  20. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    I figured I covered all the problems, BIOS writing included, with "a lot of reasons that isn't going to happen soon". Did you want me to actually list all the reasons why EvilDragon chose ARM over x86?
     

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