Citra (3DS Emulator) on Pyra?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by slimeycat, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. slimeycat

    slimeycat Member

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    Kind of a n00b question, but is it even theoretically possible to get a 3DS emulator (with no 3D obviously) working on the Pyra as well as DraStic emulates the DS?

    Citra will likely be running commerical games soonish ...

    http://citra-emu.org/
     
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  2. Foxgod

    Foxgod Active Member

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    Their faq mentions they might target mobile platforms in the future, when they do it will be likely..

    But maybe itl require a soc upgrade on the pyra, that, and a better 3ds emulator.

    Cause in its current state, this emulator wont run a thing on anything short of a high end pc.

    It might be years away until this emulator provides good 3ds emulation on ARM.
     
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  3. DaMummy

    DaMummy Soldier Paste

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    plus, you got the whole 2 screen thing that gets in the way...shut up, i hate myself too
     
  4. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    I can't remember if we can get dual screen output to the internal display and HDMI.  That might help some people that want to emulate 3DS while near a usable monitor.

    Wouldn't both 3DS screens fit on the Pyra screen?  I haven't used DraStic, so I don't know how usable that would be, especially if the 3DS screens are much higher resolution than the DS.
     
  5. TrashyMG

    TrashyMG Sarcasm Dispenser Staff Member

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    It will be just like a normal Laptop, you can run both displays if needed. I'm sure if a Pyra version is made, it will utilize this.

    Pandora version of Drastic allows both screens on the single display or you can make one of the two screens take up the whole display. And there are hot keys to toggle between the modes during play.
     
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  6. slaeshjag

    slaeshjag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Citra is still slow. Very slow. Very very slow. Very very very slow.
     
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  7. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

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    I meant I don't know how usable it would be to have both 3/DS screens on the Pyra/Pandora display at the same time (ignoring trying to hit buttons on the secondary screen).  I suspect the Pyra display will be a better option due to higher resolution.  The overall display size isn't being increased much, so still possibly a bit small.  I should probably just try it, and will when I get my Pandora back after I finally send it in for an upgrade.
     
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  8. slimeycat

    slimeycat Member

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    I love DraStic on my Pandora.   I even bought it for my Android phone.  Wonder if Exophase is up for a 3DS emulator at full speed on the Pyra ... :)
     
  9. Hồng Thất Công

    Hồng Thất Công Đả Cẩu Bổng Pháp

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    Exophase will rock the emulation world once again someday as he did with his DraStic...

    Maybe this time notaz will take on the challenge... :)

    Or perhaps the two will combine forces and blow the emulation world with 3DraStic or 2DraStic ... :)
     
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  10. slaeshjag

    slaeshjag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I doubt any of them have any ambition at all to work on a 3DS emulator
     
  11. Hồng Thất Công

    Hồng Thất Công Đả Cẩu Bổng Pháp

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    I know money is not everything, but I would think more than 500 thousand downloads on Android for DraStic is something to consider ...

    Opportunities don't present themselves twice and Exophase has the ability and made the right decision on DraStic.  I hope he will make similar decision here.

    It has been so nice to just carry my Pandora and has my DS games on them so I don't have to carry my DS with me.  I wish I don't have to carry my 3DS with me with Pyra as well :)
     
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  12. FaeMinx

    FaeMinx Rainbow Liberation Instigation

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    Exophase has already achieved legendary status imho, and when (not if) he rocks the world with a performance leading 3DS emulator for Pyra, and then Android, his reputation will be OVER 9000!!!!! 1!!! 1!!





    Edit: As much as I am in awe of his skills, I do not believe it will be remotely possible with the current cpu board, I expect this in a few years when the Pyra gets a beefy upgrade.
     
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  13. Hồng Thất Công

    Hồng Thất Công Đả Cẩu Bổng Pháp

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    I'm just afraid Nintendo is currently offering him a very high paying job just to get him join their team... :(
     
  14. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    Fortunately that isn't how Ninentdo plays.Unfortunately, how they play is usually to send in the lawyers first and ask questions later.
     
  15. Neelix

    Neelix Insecticidal Maniac

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    The upper screen on a 3DS 800 pixels wide just like the Pandora.  Unlike the Pandora, when held in the correct viewing distance range each eye can only see 400 of them at any one time,  so you could in fact display left and right eye images side by side for free viewing on the top half of the Pandora screen on a 1:1 scale, and still have room to display two copies of the lower screen below them. :)

    - Neelix
     
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  16. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Are you forgetting about Argonaut and SuperFX?
     
  17. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    Not sure what you're talking about. According to Wikipedia Nintendo was in support of Argonaut from the start.
     
  18. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Ah, the story I've heard (can't remember where to be fair) is that Argonaut managed to reverse engineer the SNES interface and implement a support chip on their own before they went to Nintendo.  As I recall they didn't have the SuperFX chip that was shipped with Starfox, but a proof of concept at least.
     
  19. Exophase

    Exophase Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.

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    From my discussions with Normmatt (who has been involved with a lot of 3DS reverse engineering and some emulation work) about 3DS emulation it seems like it could be a lot like PSP emulation.

    They have similar generation processors, with a main CPU running game code in userland only and a secondary CPU running system/OS routines. Most of the hardware outside of the GPU is abstracted by the OS. Programs have limits in what sort of memory they can access. The GPU mostly maps reasonably to something like OGL ES 2+. For years the approach for PSP emulation has been a lot of HLE, largely because the lower level hardware isn't really understand and a lot of it is hiding behind encryption. And a lot (most? all?) of what it's HLEing is OS code that lives on the firmware instead of being packaged with the game, meaning that you just have to HLE the newest version, since they must retain compatibility in the real hardware. This is different from a scenario where libraries are packaged with the game and don't have to be compatible with anything else, where HLEing it becomes a nightmare of keeping up with many versions (see past attempts at XBox emulation for this problem in action)

    So far, the approach for 3DS emulation has been similar to the approach for PSP emulation. Normmatt and I have joked about an optimized 3DS emulator running faster than DraStic does, but that might not be that far outside the realm of possibility. Especially when considering demand of resolution enhancement which I'm currently working on for DraStic - since it uses a software renderer it's going to be a lot more expensive.

    This sort of hardware and this sort of emulation approach is very different from DS and efficient DS emulation, where games are written more to the metal, are often more dependent on proper timing, and the 3D hardware interacts with the 2D hardware in a way that makes it cumbersome to emulate with OGL ES. There Nitro library code is bundled with the game so there's no compatibility guarantee, and maybe not that much interesting to HLE anyway.

    If 3DS emulation really ends up being a lot like PSP emulation then there's a good chance someone will tackle it like they have PPSSPP. It's too early to tell with Citra if that potential is really there or not, time will tell. But I don't think I really want to do an emulator that must rely heavily on HLE and emulates system events using host timers instead of emulating clock ticks. That'd entail very different development and debugging than anything I'm used to, so I'm probably not a great candidate for it. The only thing I'd really be any good at contributing is an optimized ARM11 recompiler.

    I don't think I'd be terribly comfortable releasing a 3DS emulator any time soon either. When DraStic came out on Android DS was already nearly 9 years old, and the last major game came out a year earlier. This game (Pokemon Black/White 2) was also the only DS one that ever showed up on top sales lists anymore. There was still a stream of shovelware coming out (there still is even now!) but I don't think the emulator really did anything to divert their sales. I can tell because the save database has lagged by several months, causing these new games to not work, and we only very rarely got complaints for any of them. Very cheap DS flashcarts have been a mainstream thing for many years, and DSes themselves had gotten very cheap, so people who just wanted to pirate games who may have bought them otherwise would have mostly already been doing so. And had they not they'd be buying the games second hand for the most part.

    With 3DS there's still quite a lot of life left, major first party games are still topping sales charts regularly, and the hardware itself is still selling nearly as much as PS4 is. Flash carts are out but they're kind of a compatibility minefield, with the better ones being pretty pricey. It feels like there's a much greater temptation to pirate games that are in their most crucial selling period, to try them on an emulator (especially if it has graphical enhancement), then not bother buying it. Now I'm not saying anyone else would be in the wrong to release a 3DS emulator, that they're accountable for the actions of users, or even any statement on the morality of piracy. It's simply something that I don't think I personally feel comfortable with at the time, even knowing that it could probably make a lot of money. It's a vague, very subjective line, and filled with compromises (eg, it's not fair for the people who do buy games with the intention of using them on emulators, play games they already owned, or evaluate them on emulators then buy them if they have any intention of really playing it), and kind of hard to delineate. I'm sure there are many people who think that DraStic was just as problematic or that I'm rationalizing it, and that too is their subjective prerogative; I'm sure there are also people who find 3DS emulation now no problem at all and they're free to support it however they want.

    This may all end up moot if it takes several years for 3DS emulation to really get anywhere anyway.
     
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  20. slimeycat

    slimeycat Member

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    Thanks Exophase for the very thoughtful reply.  I'm hopeful from your reply :)  I know these things take tremendous effort.

    And I must also say that 500k installs of DraStic on Android is well deserved.  It's a great product and great products should be rewarded!
     
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